Need help with an Evocation Ray(maybe Enchanter) Daeran build for unfair

[DarkOne]

I have in game experience until the end of act 3, I can handle the early part of unfair, but I lack late game knowledge about the game and maybe some mechanics.

My late game party(level 16+) will be: Main 2w scimitar demon Instinctual Warrior, Seelah with tanky horse, Camellia 2w rapier with hexes/protections and pet, Sosiel with full domains glaive and pet, BFT with a reach weapon for the personal buffs and finally, the reason i'm making this thread, Daeran.

I'm playing with him mostly for the crazy amount of buffs that are needed for my melee focused party and to be focused on rays and maybe greater command and overwhelming presence.

I'm having a very hard time on how to formulate the questions, my main problem is I don't how important some feats/mythic abilities are.
Here are some examples: Is Spell Focus/Greater Enchantment needed since I can stack DC with items ?
Is Spell Focus/Greater Evocation needed since Hellfire Ray doesn't benefit and i'm guessing it's only good for firestorm to overcome the reflex save ?

In the end I can go with something like this:
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Improved Critical Ray
Bolster
Shatter Defenses (i'll get dazzling display from mythic)
I'll have 3 feats left, they can be Hightened/Improved Initiative/SF/GSF/Elemental Focus Fire ?(is it any good)/Weapon focus Ray

As for the mythic ones:
Second Mystery Nature
Enduring
Greater Enduring
Last Stand
Ascendant Element Fire(I read I can get a ring that turns all my damage to force but I think I have to micro manage it everytime)
Sorcerous Reflex
Dazzling display feat
There are again 3 left but they will be at the end of the game. So...SP mythic ?Spell Focus mythic? weapon focus ?

Does aspect of the asp work with elemental barrage now ?
I saw on neoseeker that you can take a sorcerer dip for more damage, is it worth it ?

I'm sorry I couldn't formulate my questions better, but as you can see, I am lost with this build :)

[Lynchden]

Publicado originalmente por MjKorz:

Elemental Specialist gives you Focused Element which allows you to convert Hellfire Ray that consists of Fire + Unholy components into pure fire damge. This has massive synergy with Flame Curse that multiplies any fire damage inflicted on the target. Without full conversion of Hellfire Ray into fire, you will not get as much extra damage from Flame Curse, because it will not multiply the Unholy component.

Thank you for posting your build! I can’t wait to try it out. I’m curious about the flame curse you mentioned. I’ve never used it. Are you talking about the shaman hex? The pathfinder wiki description doesn’t mention anything about extra damage. It just mentions making the target vulnerable to fire, which seems redundant with ascendant element mythic feat. How much extra damage do you get with flame curse? Is this the shaman hex?

Edit - It looks like vulnerability in the case of flame curse means target takes 50% more damage and doesn’t mean an immune target now takes damage. I think.

[MjKorz]

Publicado originalmente por Lynchden:

Thank you for posting your build! I can’t wait to try it out. I’m curious about the flame curse you mentioned. I’ve never used it. Are you talking about the shaman hex? The pathfinder wiki description doesn’t mention anything about extra damage. It just mentions making the target vulnerable to fire, which seems redundant with ascendant element mythic feat. How much extra damage do you get with flame curse? Is this the shaman hex?

Edit - It looks like vulnerability in the case of flame curse means target takes 50% more damage and doesn’t mean an immune target now takes damage. I think.

To get flame curse you need to be a shaman with a flame spirit. You can take the second spirit mythic ability on Camellia and choose flame spirit. Flame curse multiplies incoming fire damage by 1.5 and you still need ascendant element fire.

[DarkOne]

What would you change for a mercenary(non trickster MP) ?
I know his full power comes if he is the main character, and trickster MP but i'm on my demon run and I want to see how good he is mid-late game.
Or do you consider there's no point in making a mercenary ray caster ?

[MjKorz]

Publicado originalmente por DarkOne:

What would you change for a mercenary(non trickster MP) ?
I know his full power comes if he is the main character, and trickster MP but i'm on my demon run and I want to see how good he is mid-late game.
Or do you consider there's no point in making a mercenary ray caster ?

Hellfire Ray caster build is the strongest direct damage spellcaster build you can make regardless of your mythic path. Even Angel can output more damage via Hellfire Ray than via Bolt of Justice. So yes, it's worth it.

If you're not going Trickster, then you can take only 2 out of 3 Trickster critical feats: Improved Improved Critical, Improved Improved Improved Critical and Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved. In this case you do the same thing: you take Improved Improved Critical and Improved Improved Improved Critical via 2 loremaster secrets early (before you get 8BAB) and then get Improved Critical and Mythic Improved Critical once you reach 8 BAB. You do not take Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved, because the value of an extended critical threat range is greater than the value of an increased critical multiplier on a build that cannot guarantee criticals due to the ability to grant yourself advantage on attack rolls.

Since you're not going Trickster, you also cannot take Metamagic - Completely Normal Spell.

This leaves you with 2 free feat choices. What you want to do with those feats is up to you and changes very little:

1. You could take Critical Focus, but its value is low in a game where you want to buff your attack bonus against touch AC into the "nofail" range.

2. Another alternative is to take Spell Focus Abjuration and then Spell Specialization Greater Dispel since you have 19 CL and will become a CL21 dispeller and a ray caster in one bag. Fiery Spellweaver gives you +1CL and Robe of Seven Sins gives you +3CL. Touch of Law guarantees you roll 11 on your dispel caster level check. Thus, the result of your dispel caster level check will be a precise 36 when used with Touch of Law which is enough to dispel Areelu's CR34 buffs (or was it CR33? I don't remember) on any difficulty. Inevitable Darkness' buffs are CR41 so you will not be able to dispel them with Touch of Law, but you will be able to dispel them with Goggles of Pure Sight which allow you to take 20 on a dispel caster level check roll. You can use these goggles twice: use them before the fight to "bank" the take 20, rest (the buff persists through rest), then use a dispel in the fight to expend the take 20, use the goggles again midfight to gain another take 20 and dispel again. You'll be removing 5 buffs per Greater Dispel at your CL so you will remove 10 buffs total which is pretty good.

3. Take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Evocation and use Evocation DC boosting items to cast Evocation spells other than Hellfire Ray. This will not make your Evocation DCs anywhere near comparable to a dedicated Evoker DC caster and enemies will still make their saves more often than not (depends on the difficulty), but it's something you should do if you don't want to just spam Hellfire Ray (which is the best option for this build in almost every case).


Since you cannot get guaranteed crits on rays as a non-Trickster, you should do the second best thing: get advantage on attack rolls via Fortune Hex and Bit of Luck. These advantages stack so you will be able to roll your attack thrice, thus increasing the likelihood of getting a critical hit. Remember when I said that critical threat range expansion has more value for this build that critical multiplier? This is the reason.


Since you're going Demon, you want to use Aspect of Nocticula + Aspect of Brimorak to convey your merc the extra damage per die. This will increase the merc's Hellfire Ray damage by an equivalent of 2-4 draconic bloodlines (I don't remember if a merc can get +4 damage/die or if he's stuck with a +2 damage/die which is still amazing).