Level 13 Blackwater possible?

[SirRantsAlot]

I ask since i am now stuck with kalavakus marauders and some sukubi in a hall with lava and a bridge over it. The game says electricity will help but it did not do any harm and now my two electricity spells are used and i am about to die again. Today for the 14th time and its getting again annoying.
I even tried to fight them alone but they all come very fast. Magic is of no use since their spell resistance is at unbelieveable eh ridicolous 24 (twenty four!). Mine is mostly zero as always. So maybe i need a higher level like level 30 or so i guess.
It would be nice if the game give me an information like this is too hard to handle at your specific level.
And of course the little damage i make they recover instantly.

[elbentzo]

Possible? Yes. But if you're playing at a difficulty level appropriate to your knowledge, skill and patience, then it will be very hard. Genereally speaking, most people save it for the end of act 3 when you're level 14 (or even 15 if you complete everything including the DLC). Then it becomes much more reasonable.
If you want you can lower the difficulty. If your party is unfair viable, and you lower the difficulty enough, then you can also do it on 12 or 11. If you're already at a lower difficulty, I'd suggest leaving and coming back when you're stronger. The game is supposed to be fun and if it gets too frustrating for you to enjoy, don't force it.

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by elbentzo:

Possible? Yes. But if you're playing at a difficulty level appropriate to your knowledge, skill and patience, then it will be very hard. Genereally speaking, most people save it for the end of act 3 when you're level 14 (or even 15 if you complete everything including the DLC). Then it becomes much more reasonable.
If you want you can lower the difficulty. If your party is unfair viable, and you lower the difficulty enough, then you can also do it on 12 or 11. If you're already at a lower difficulty, I'd suggest leaving and coming back when you're stronger. The game is supposed to be fun and if it gets too frustrating for you to enjoy, don't force it.

I just play less than normal level. More lowering would be possible but i wonder why lower so much? The game itself is now for days just pure frustration. Whenever i prepare my group with spells etc. then very soon all monsters have resistance or immunity esp. against the spells i have choosen.
I want some challenge and its ok if i need one or two more attempts but 10, 20 or more is just ridicolous. I start hating this game meanwhile. The system that i cannot use all spells i have learned makes it more difficult in way that is useless and just prolonged the game in a stupid way. To me it would be ok if there is a mod that allow my magicians to use all spells they have learned instead of resting to rearrange them. And then probably more often.
And i think that some monsters are just op like these kalavakus marauders. Magic pracitcally is not possible at least for my group. But every magic my oponents use is a hit.

[Huge Beard Guy]

Originally posted by SirRantsAlot:

Level 13 Blackwater possible?

Totally possible. I just finished that area today at level 13.

[Mr Fred]

Again less magic more physical dps with about 3 times more buffs than what you are actually doing and the game would already be a walk in the park on normal at your lvl.

And if you really want caster dmg build them right, a lvl 13 elf caster with both spell pen feat and mythic spell pen have +25 to beat spell resistance and you should have one ascendant element mythic of your choice so no one is immune to it.

[darkholyPL]

I did Blackwater at level 11 or 12 (was more than I year ago now, so I don't remember exactly) on Core with less than perfect party. Doable but frustrating.
If it make you feel any better, that fight was probabbly the hardest one in that place.

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by SirRantsAlot:

Originally posted by elbentzo:

Possible? Yes. But if you're playing at a difficulty level appropriate to your knowledge, skill and patience, then it will be very hard. Genereally speaking, most people save it for the end of act 3 when you're level 14 (or even 15 if you complete everything including the DLC). Then it becomes much more reasonable.
If you want you can lower the difficulty. If your party is unfair viable, and you lower the difficulty enough, then you can also do it on 12 or 11. If you're already at a lower difficulty, I'd suggest leaving and coming back when you're stronger. The game is supposed to be fun and if it gets too frustrating for you to enjoy, don't force it.

I just play less than normal level. More lowering would be possible but i wonder why lower so much? The game itself is now for days just pure frustration. Whenever i prepare my group with spells etc. then very soon all monsters have resistance or immunity esp. against the spells i have choosen.
I want some challenge and its ok if i need one or two more attempts but 10, 20 or more is just ridicolous. I start hating this game meanwhile. The system that i cannot use all spells i have learned makes it more difficult in way that is useless and just prolonged the game in a stupid way. To me it would be ok if there is a mod that allow my magicians to use all spells they have learned instead of resting to rearrange them. And then probably more often.
And i think that some monsters are just op like these kalavakus marauders. Magic pracitcally is not possible at least for my group. But every magic my oponents use is a hit.

It seems to me like you don't really understand the game well enough. Let's take for example your complaint about having to rest to rearrange spells and the fact you can't use them all. Well, that just means you picked a class that isn't right for you. There are 2 types of spell users in the game: prepared casters (who have to choose a selection of spells they can use and have to rest to ``rearrange" them as you put it) and spontaneous casters (who can use any spell they know and never have to rearrange anything, just rest when you hit the limit on your spell usage, called ``spell slots"). If you like the second type more than the first, pick a sorcerer instead of a wizard, or an oracle instead of a cleric.
Another example would be the spell resistance. You say your enemies have 24 spell resistance. That means that every time you cast a spell at an enemy, the game rolls a d20 (RPG term for choosing a random number between 1 and 20), adds your spell penetration and checks if the result is equal or higher than 24. So if your spell penetration is 13, that means you will succeed 50% of the time (any roll between 1 and 10 would fail because your total would be under 24, any roll between 11 and 20 would succeed). If you fail too often to cast your spells, that means your spell penetration is too low (you can see it if you pick the character who tried to cast the spell and go to the spellbook page by clicking "b" on the keyboard). And if it is too low, for example 5 (which means you will only succeed if you rolled a 19 or 20, which is a low chance of 10%) then you need to raise that stat. You can do so by choosing feats the raise it (like the spell penetration feat), mythic feats, or raising your level (for example, if your character is level 13 but has 10 levels in fighter and only 3 in wizard, then your spell penetration would be very low because the fighter levels don't contribute to it). If you understand why you're failing the spell penetration check then it shouldn't be too hard to fix it. For example, if you make sure your caster takes all their levels in the same spellcasting class, your base spell penetration will be 13 (that's your class level). Then even if you invest only one feat in spell penetration and wear a ring that increases it by 2, then you're already at 17 spell penetration, and only need to rolls a 7 or more on a d20. That means you will succeed 70% of the time. And if that's not enough for you, you can get another spell penetration feat, or get the mythic feat, or create a character who is an elf and gets a bonus. If you understand the system and have the patience to read and get better at it, you can fairly easily reach spell pen high enough to have a 100% success chance with most enemies.

This is a tactics game which can be pretty hard for beginners. If you're not interested in learning the systems and mechanics and developing your character to be better at facing the challenges, then I predict the game will only become worse and worse for you as you progress.

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by Mr Fred:

Again less magic more physical dps with about 3 times more buffs than what you are actually doing and the game would already be a walk in the park on normal at your lvl.

And if you really want caster dmg build them right, a lvl 13 elf caster with both spell pen feat and mythic spell pen have +25 to beat spell resistance and you should have one ascendant element mythic of your choice.

What is dps? How can i buff my weapons? With potions?

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by darkholyPL:

I did Blackwater at level 11 or 12 (was more than I year ago now, so I don't remember exactly) on Core with less than perfect party. Doable but frustrating.
If it make you feel any better, that fight was probabbly the hardest one in that place.

So if i turn down difficulty juts for this ridicolous op monsters the level will be ok afterwards?

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by elbentzo:

Originally posted by SirRantsAlot:

I just play less than normal level. More lowering would be possible but i wonder why lower so much? The game itself is now for days just pure frustration. Whenever i prepare my group with spells etc. then very soon all monsters have resistance or immunity esp. against the spells i have choosen.
I want some challenge and its ok if i need one or two more attempts but 10, 20 or more is just ridicolous. I start hating this game meanwhile. The system that i cannot use all spells i have learned makes it more difficult in way that is useless and just prolonged the game in a stupid way. To me it would be ok if there is a mod that allow my magicians to use all spells they have learned instead of resting to rearrange them. And then probably more often.
And i think that some monsters are just op like these kalavakus marauders. Magic pracitcally is not possible at least for my group. But every magic my oponents use is a hit.

It seems to me like you don't really understand the game well enough. Let's take for example your complaint about having to rest to rearrange spells and the fact you can't use them all. Well, that just means you picked a class that isn't right for you. There are 2 types of spell users in the game: prepared casters (who have to choose a selection of spells they can use and have to rest to ``rearrange" them as you put it) and spontaneous casters (who can use any spell they know and never have to rearrange anything, just rest when you hit the limit on your spell usage, called ``spell slots"). If you like the second type more than the first, pick a sorcerer instead of a wizard, or an oracle instead of a cleric.
Another example would be the spell resistance. You say your enemies have 24 spell resistance. That means that every time you cast a spell at an enemy, the game rolls a d20 (RPG term for choosing a random number between 1 and 20), adds your spell penetration and checks if the result is equal or higher than 24. So if your spell penetration is 13, that means you will succeed 50% of the time (any roll between 1 and 10 would fail because your total would be under 24, any roll between 11 and 20 would succeed). If you fail too often to cast your spells, that means your spell penetration is too low (you can see it if you pick the character who tried to cast the spell and go to the spellbook page by clicking "b" on the keyboard). And if it is too low, for example 5 (which means you will only succeed if you rolled a 19 or 20, which is a low chance of 10%) then you need to raise that stat. You can do so by choosing feats the raise it (like the spell penetration feat), mythic feats, or raising your level (for example, if your character is level 13 but has 10 levels in fighter and only 3 in wizard, then your spell penetration would be very low because the fighter levels don't contribute to it).

This is a tactics game which can be pretty hard for beginners. If you're not interested in learning the systems and mechanics and developing your character to be better at facing the challenges, then I predict the game will only become worse and worse for you as you progress.

I understand that. 2 chars have to plan and 2 other chars can spell spontane but limited. I got the feeling my 2 chars who have to arrange the spells always choose the wrong ones. When i focus on acid and fire for example i can be sure the enemies need cold or electricity damage and so on. Since i cannot rearrange they are nearly worthless then and that is extremely annoying.
According to talents Woljif has d20+2 penetration which is useless. In the spellbook i could not find the spell penetration amount.
And with a lot of monsters it seems that the first 10 or 20 hits did not make any damage at all.

[darkholyPL]

Originally posted by SirRantsAlot:

Originally posted by darkholyPL:

I did Blackwater at level 11 or 12 (was more than I year ago now, so I don't remember exactly) on Core with less than perfect party. Doable but frustrating.
If it make you feel any better, that fight was probabbly the hardest one in that place.

So if i turn down difficulty juts for this ridicolous op monsters the level will be ok afterwards?

You should be. It's still not going to be easy mind you, but should be doable from that point on for you.

[Mr Fred]

Quick list of standard buffs you should have at lvl 13 (arcanist and alchemist could add even more buffs that are normally personal use only), your buffbots should have 24hour buff from enduring spell at that point :

lvl 1 : remove fear, armor of faith, enlarge person
lvl 2 : barkskin
lvl 3 : delay poison communal, resist energy communal, magical vestment, (haste in combat)
lvl 4 : protection from energy communal, death ward, greater magic weapon, freedom of movement
lvl 5 : spell resistance, stone skin communal
lvl 6 : mass buff for str/dex/con, true seeing communal, greater heroism

Like 2 melee, an animal companion and an archer with those buffs and you can play the rest of the game on auto battle at normal difficulty, it will become that easy.

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by Mr Fred:

Quick list of standard buffs you should have at lvl 13 (arcanist and alchemist could add even more buffs that are normally personal use only), your buffbots should have 24hour buff from enduring spell at that point :

lvl 1 : remove fear, armor of faith, enlarge person
lvl 2 : barkskin
lvl 3 : delay poison communal, resist energy communal, magical vestment, (haste in combat)
lvl 4 : protection from energy communal, death ward, greater magic weapon, freedom of movement
lvl 5 : spell resistance, stone skin communal
lvl 6 : mass buff for str/dex/con, true seeing communal, greater heroism

Like 2 melee, an animal companion and an archer with those buffs and you can play the rest of the game on auto battle at normal difficulty, it will become that easy.

Are these buffs lvl1-6 spells and are they available for whole group or just single members?
And you say i only need 2 melee, 1 animal and 1 archer and the game is easy play at normal level?
I play normal with reduced damage (50% instead of 80%).

[Mr Fred]

Add the divine and arcane buffbot and yeah pretty much. I'd recommend this playstyle for a new player and save the offensive caster for another run when youre more experienced.

Also the group buff are mostly called communal or mass in them with exception like remove fear and haste.

[ajfusch]

Ookkay .... from not knowing what "dps" is I believe you're not familiar with ANY kind of RPG. Or action/adventure etc game. Earlier I thought it was only CRPG.

In this case: Just lower the difficulty. Permanently. A game is meant to be fun and obviously you have a lot to learn about this type of games and Pathfinder rules/mechanics. Playing on normal before you did that is just torturing yourself.

If you don't do so already I'd also suggest you use turnbased mode more often instead of Real Time with Pause. It makes a lot of fights easier. Depends a bit on a variety of things, but mostly, it's easier.

10 attempts aren't many for a really tricky fight, btw. If you expect to waltz through the game easily, again: Lower the difficulty.
And it's totally okay to leave and go back to that fight 2 levels later.

About resistance: Just learn different spells, not just a single type. And don't neglect your physical fighters, both melee (Nahkampf) and ranged (Fernkampf).

You can buff your chars with potions, scrolls, spells. There are some that directly buff the weapons, but most buff the character themselves so they do more damage or have better hit chances. There are 2 or 3 communal spells you should alsways have active when entering a fight. Bless, Prayer, Haste. There are lot of others both for protection and making the characters "stronger".

You can see spell penetration in the character sheet. You can get higher penetration by equipping items with a bonus for it and with feats. (Talente)

Did you level your animal companions? Not Bismuth, he auto-levels, but other animal companions? You have to go to their character sheet by clicking on the little bar at the bottom of their master's portrait for that. Also, have you equipped them? They can wear armor, capes, gloves and amulets.
It's something easily overlooked, happened to me at first. At level 4 or 5 I was wondering why my animal companion always died so fast when in the beginning she was much better.

[SirRantsAlot]

Originally posted by Mr Fred:

Add the divine and arcane buffbot and yeah pretty much. I'd recommend this playstyle for a new player and save the offensive caster for another run when youre more experienced.

Also the group buff are mostly called communal or mass in them with exception like remove fear and haste.

Are these buffs spells and can i use them on the whole group?