Really torn on starting Class. There are just so many options. Had a question about Rogues/Assassin type characters

[Baltar777]

Hey everyone,

So typically speaking with CRPGS I roll with a rogue so I can unlock stuff to hopefully find decent gear or stuff to sell and take care of traps.

Going over the Rogue options though, there are just so many variations. Are the Rogues that have spells useful or will I find myself kind of handicapped trying to do a jack of all trades type thing?

Also, do any of the Rogue classes have the ability to go invisible during combat to get extra backstab damage?

And as far as Rangers; are the mounted ones relatively good, or would I be better off when it comes to survival getting a Ranger w/ Pet?

I know these questions are largely up to opinion; but just wanted to make sure I wasnt going to create a main that is useless in combat compared to the rest of the party.

Kind of made that mistake in Kingmaker. Had a Ranger with a pet and there was a quest where I only could use my main and legitimately couldnt win the fight. It was like when Bugbears were bursting out of patients in the cells under the Keep. Had to just lower the difficulty because of that single fight. Was able to handle everything else the game threw at me on Hard, but them forcing me to fight with just my main ruined my Hard playthru.

Thanks for your time

[steventirey]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Also, do any of the Rogue classes have the ability to go invisible during combat to get extra backstab damage?

Sneak attack damage is applied when you flank an enemy. That is, any time you have another character capable of making a melee attack on the same enemy, someone with Sneak Attack will get the additional damage. Invisibility isn't necessary for this.

Invisibility isn't reliable, as many demons have some sort of True Seeing ability and will see you anyway.

[snuggleform]

The eldritch rogue (one with spells) is fine, although I will say that you get a companion early in the game who is exactly that class and has a better stat point allocation in it than you could hope for. I will also say that it is generally pretty hard to land CC/offensive spells as a rogue because you need to invest lot of feats into getting spell pen / DC up and that compete greatly with your martial feats for swinging your weapons. So most of your spell slots will be used on defense/utility spells rather than damage/CC. There are some really nice self buffs you can get like echolocation, sense vitals. That's what makes them fine.

If you want a close alternative to spellcasting rogue, use the alchemist (vivisectionist) class. They have the exact same sneak attack progression as a base rogue (which is higher than an eldritch rogue), but their spells are fully focused on self buffing and utility so you will get a huge range of nice buffs compared to the eldritch list which has a lot of offense/CC that is hard to make use of. They can even get the ability to upgrade their spells to affect other party members instead of just themselves. A lot of people in fact recommend converting the aforementioned companion into vivisectionist for these reasons.

Knifemaster is pretty good for dagger builds, and there are some very excellent daggers in the game.

You can get a free mount from an item in act 2, so even though your rogue isn't a pet class naturally, it can still ride one. It's actually pretty great because the mount flanks targets automatically that you are attacking, so you get your sneak attacks activated merely by riding your mount and attacking stuff. Plus, the mobility is really convenient for letting you get off full attacks instead of wasting so many move actions on moving.

I'm honestly even ok with recommending master of all rogue, despite everyone hating on it as a meme. You can actually make up most of the lost sneak attack through feats. There is some use in stacking skills on the MC because there are some events that only check your MCs skills (yes, most skillchecks will be party wide).

Rowdy rogue is very good. It clusters a lot of sneak attack damage into its Vital Strike as a standard action, which is outrageous for initiating battles via a bow. It's not really a dual wielding class though because of the way vital strike works. If you want a 2H rogue this is the way to go.

Rangers are a great class either with or without pet. If you use a pet I recommend dual wielding and getting your butt in there by mounting up. It works because the pet tanks for you and auto flanks targets, so you can focus on slicing things up. Demonslayer class is great because there is a huge density of demons in the game. If you don't use a pet I prefer dual wielding throwing axes or longbow because your AC isn't that great, or maybe use reach weapons in melee. You do get a ranger companion in act 3 if you're worried about duplicating classes. The companion comes as an espionage master (no pet) with a focus in archery.

WOTR doesn't throw any solo fights at you that are hard and required. There is one optional hard solo fight and in fact not recommended since it causes you to lose a companion, even if you win. The game tells you many times that you shouldn't do the option. It's not even part of a quest. All of the solo fights the game throws at you besides that one exception are a pack of wimpy ♥♥♥♥♥ that you could probably melee even with a wizard, and easily overcome with a martial class like rogue or ranger.

[malkavius77]

If you like rogues I would reccomend Knife master 4/ vivisectionist 16. It's a simple straight forward and strong build.

[Baltar777]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

The eldritch rogue (one with spells) is fine, although I will say that you get a companion early in the game who is exactly that class and has a better stat point allocation in it than you could hope for. I will also say that it is generally pretty hard to land CC/offensive spells as a rogue because you need to invest lot of feats into getting spell pen / DC up and that compete greatly with your martial feats for swinging your weapons. So most of your spell slots will be used on defense/utility spells rather than damage/CC. There are some really nice self buffs you can get like echolocation, sense vitals. That's what makes them fine.

Wow, THANK YOU so much for the breakdowns. Its difficult to just look at the skill tree and also have to kind of cross your fingers that the game is going to be 'doable' with these different classes. I am going to be rereading your post a few times before fully committing, but I do really like the sound of a 'buff' rogue. That sounds pretty awesome.

Will probably start my campaign tonight, just gonna be making that judgement call now with this information.

Again, thank you very much. I really appreciate you breaking it down for me.

[snuggleform]

I'd recommend full 20 on rogue, the master strike may not be optimal but it sure is satisfying and begging to be claimed.

[Duder]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Originally posted by snuggleform:

The eldritch rogue (one with spells) is fine, although I will say that you get a companion early in the game who is exactly that class and has a better stat point allocation in it than you could hope for. I will also say that it is generally pretty hard to land CC/offensive spells as a rogue because you need to invest lot of feats into getting spell pen / DC up and that compete greatly with your martial feats for swinging your weapons. So most of your spell slots will be used on defense/utility spells rather than damage/CC. There are some really nice self buffs you can get like echolocation, sense vitals. That's what makes them fine.

Wow, THANK YOU so much for the breakdowns. Its difficult to just look at the skill tree and also have to kind of cross your fingers that the game is going to be 'doable' with these different classes. I am going to be rereading your post a few times before fully committing, but I do really like the sound of a 'buff' rogue. That sounds pretty awesome.

Will probably start my campaign tonight, just gonna be making that judgement call now with this information.

Again, thank you very much. I really appreciate you breaking it down for me.

The first game had many classes too, but not NEARLY as many as this lol
It's kinda overload but cool at the same time

[snuggleform]

I've spent an uncomfortable number of hours just going over the options in the class menu myself X_x

[Tyrendian89]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

I've spent an uncomfortable number of hours just going over the options in the class menu myself X_x

yeah I think we all have :D

[Schlumpsha]

Welcome to Pathfinder, where character creation takes longer than the actual gameplay. We all already suffer through restartitis.

[Baltar777]

Ya. When they added controller support, I bought the game that day, fully intending to get a solid 10 hours of playtime in that night.

I was looking at the character creation screen for about 5 hours before my friend texted me to play Rocket League. I hopped off and looked at time played and it was 5 hours and I was like... holy hell, I just spent 5 hours looking at character sheets. lol.

Love Crpgs, been playing them since Baldurs back in the day, but jesus, absolutely overwhelming. I told my buddy when we got on rocket, he was like "how is pathfinder?" and i was like... I didnt get pass the character creation screen in 5 hours. He laughed his ass off.

[IrishUnicorn]

Half of the classes are bugged, so before choosing make sure to check on it with google.

[Baltar777]

Originally posted by ProestUnicorn:

Half of the classes are bugged, so before choosing make sure to check on it with google.

Oh, thats good to know. Sorry to trouble you, but is there a particular site that just lists the bugged classes I could just pull up and have sitting there? I was really gonna make a rogue last night then I started looking at the Druids and stuff, which ive never really focused on with a Crpg but sounded so cool from their descriptions.

Thanks for the heads up. But ya, if there is a site that just lists which ones that dont work, if you have time, Id appreciate a link, if a full list like that exists.

[IrishUnicorn]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Originally posted by ProestUnicorn:

Half of the classes are bugged, so before choosing make sure to check on it with google.

Oh, thats good to know. Sorry to trouble you, but is there a particular site that just lists the bugged classes I could just pull up and have sitting there? I was really gonna make a rogue last night then I started looking at the Druids and stuff, which ive never really focused on with a Crpg but sounded so cool from their descriptions.

Thanks for the heads up. But ya, if there is a site that just lists which ones that dont work, if you have time, Id appreciate a link, if a full list like that exists.

Can't really help You out by making a list, but to be more specific: A lot of classes are bugged, but their sub-classes can work well. When I am making chars I usually just google something along the lines ''pathfinder wotr sword saint bugged'' and it usually pops up a reddit thread complaining on it without much searching.

Dunno whether there is an up to date list, but they fixed some of the classes over the year, and although not much, if You like specific class a lot, and an old reddit thread pops up on it being bugged, You can double check in steam patch notes with ctrl+f whether it was fixed or not.

[vysionier]

I personally haven’t seen any class bugs, and so far everyone who’s complained about it in the past two weeks I’ve been reading these forums are just people not understanding the rules and class features. Haven’t read the Reddit complaints though.

[Tyrendian89]

and the severity of those bugs does vary quite a lot - some few are truly a bit broken, but most should be fine for lower to mid difficulties where you arent under as much pressure to minmax every single point of armour... which is probably recommended for a first playthrough anyway, especially since you seem somewhat new to Pathfinder in all its overwhelming glory :)