Dual Wielding viable for Str Characters?

[=M$= Oroberus]

Simple one, as shown above, is dual wielding viable for a str based character or is it better to abandon str and go full dex?

I noticed that I messed up on my core playthrough regarding my Bloodrider build (Early Act 2) and was thinking to restart him as a dual wielder instead of a bardiche user but never did a dual wielder so far

Also any suggestion regarding the weaponry? I thought about Scimitars for the Crit but as Bloodrider a crit build would make it even harter to get everything done (Two Weapon Fighting + Feats, Crit Feats, Everything surrounding Dreadful Carnage)

[vysionier]

Yep, it’s viable to play a str based dual wielder. Get yourself 15 dex and put the rest into str, dex belts will qualify you for the higher dual wield feats. Alternately, rangers dual wielding qualify for the feats without the dex.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by vysionier:

Yep, it’s viable to play a str based dual wielder. Get yourself 15 dex and put the rest into str, dex belts will qualify you for the higher dual wield feats. Alternately, rangers dual wielding qualify for the feats without the dex.

Mh mh mh okay, then I think I'll give it a try to cram everything in one character xD

Human
Neutral Evil
Demon Mythic later on
1. Level Mad Dog (for the early Doggo, later used as Mount)
2. - 20. Level Bloodrider (Infernal)
Lumberjqack Background for Bonusses on Battleaxes

Str 18
Dex 13 (+2 belt for the Two Weapon Fighting)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 15

Not sure regarding the domain though, Glory is nice but won't really fit the them of an evil Sorc-Barb becoming a demon xD

[snuggleform]

Nothing wrong with str based dual wielding, just consider carefully if you're going to dual wield heavy blades due to the higher penalty. Ideally you'd get 5 levels of fighter to get effortless dual wielding to offset that (like scimitars), but you could also just bear with it if you're diligent with getting ABs from other sources.

Be careful about using dog mount as a human, because if you legendary proportions both, you cannot ride the dog. Either use a horse for a human, or use a small size race to ride the dog comfortably.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Nothing wrong with str based dual wielding, just consider carefully if you're going to dual wield heavy blades due to the higher penalty. Ideally you'd get 5 levels of fighter to get effortless dual wielding to offset that (like scimitars), but you could also just bear with it if you're diligent with getting ABs from other sources.

Be careful about using dog mount as a human, because if you legendary proportions both, you cannot ride the dog. Either use a horse for a human, or use a small size race to ride the dog comfortably.

Oh good point indeed, I didn't knew that legendary proportions won't work out. Is it only with the dog or also with other mounts, if you're human?

[snuggleform]

The horse is the only mount that "keeps up" with human-size riders as you go into legendary proportions. The reason why is because it is the only mount that starts at Large size. If I somehow missed a mount then that is the thing you are looking for, base Large size for a human. Not even the triceratops is baseline Large size.

Yea it was a hard lesson for me to learn, because you can indeed ride your dog at level 7 as a human, but the problems begin when you use even the basic enlarge person and you can't ride animal-growthed dog, and then culminates in legendary proportions not working out either.

[Serendipitous]

Slayer has access to ranger weapon styles meaning meaning you can take them without meeting prereqs. Also it's a generally great combat class with sneak attack, study target and access to fighter feats and rogue abilities on top of ranger weapon styles.

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Nothing wrong with str based dual wielding, just consider carefully if you're going to dual wield heavy blades due to the higher penalty. Ideally you'd get 5 levels of fighter to get effortless dual wielding to offset that (like scimitars), but you could also just bear with it if you're diligent with getting ABs from other sources.

Be careful about using dog mount as a human, because if you legendary proportions both, you cannot ride the dog. Either use a horse for a human, or use a small size race to ride the dog comfortably.

I think you need 9 levels in fighter for that. You cannot take an advanced weapon training until you have taken weapon training in a group. And effortless dual wielding only applies to weapons in a weapon group you have weapon training.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by carashi:

Slayer has access to ranger weapon styles meaning meaning you can take them without meeting prereqs. Also it's a generally great combat class with sneak attack, study target and access to fighter feats and rogue abilities on top of ranger weapon styles.

Slayer is pretty much out of the question, as it won't really fit my idea of the character, same as lots of levels in fighter, just doesn't seem fitting for what I was thinking about. I mean, if I multi the Bloodrider even once, I can go for 3 non-Bloodrider levels and only lose the final class bonus but even a 4. non-Bloodrider would make 6 Bloodrider levels kind of useless (as I'd be losing the second to last big change too), needing 9 fighter levels f.e. would make over half of the Bloodrider progression kind of meaningless Oo

In terms of legendary proportions, as it's only a spell I'm actually fine with it only working with the horse (although I think Triceratops, Mastodon and Elk should be viable too, especially as the Mastodon is bigger then the horse xD) but meh, can't always get what oyu want

[ayrtep]

Yes, my advice go Demonslayer that will get you dodge and all the dual wield feats without the dex requirement. I think Deamonslayer works best for the main campaign, but for DLCs other rangers OK as well.

You can try a Str/Dex fighter but getting dex up to 17 will cost you elsewhere, but you can bite that bullet if you want.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by ayrtep:

Yes, my advice go Demonslayer that will get you dodge and all the dual wield feats without the dex requirement. I think Deamonslayer works best for the main campaign, but for DLCs other rangers OK as well.

You can try a Str/Dex fighter but getting dex up to 17 will cost you elsewhere, but you can bite that bullet if you want.

Demonslayer won't work for several reasons, the initially planned class was mentioned above, I'm not changing it. The question was, if this class is dual wield viable while still being able to profit off of it's specific bonusses.

Conclusion: No it's not ;)

Demonslayer isn't viable either because of several reasons (Being a demonslayer that aims to become a demon is way too pseudo imho and Demonslyer not getting a mount is also an issue.

I prefer to change the planned way of fighting instead and will go for some two handed weapon instead and leave the dual wielding to Regill or will use a dedicated char on a later run for this.

[Azure-Ghost]

Originally posted by =M$= Oroberus:

Originally posted by ayrtep:

Yes, my advice go Demonslayer that will get you dodge and all the dual wield feats without the dex requirement. I think Deamonslayer works best for the main campaign, but for DLCs other rangers OK as well.

You can try a Str/Dex fighter but getting dex up to 17 will cost you elsewhere, but you can bite that bullet if you want.

Demonslayer won't work for several reasons, the initially planned class was mentioned above, I'm not changing it. The question was, if this class is dual wield viable while still being able to profit off of it's specific bonusses.

Conclusion: No it's not ;)

Demonslayer isn't viable either because of several reasons (Being a demonslayer that aims to become a demon is way too pseudo imho and Demonslyer not getting a mount is also an issue.

Uhm Demon Slayer does get a mount (at-4 levels so need boon companion) Any hey Illidan (Warcraft) was a demon hunter and used demon powers ;)

Btw where do you get that domain? I don't see no domain on bloodrider O_o and isnt infernal more more of a devil way while Abyssal is demons?

You could drop strengh a bit to get dex higher and use a horse instead of wolf for the size increase spells to compensate for the less strength (well it's far more than just compensating as size increase also boosts reach, damage and alter spells give far more more than just +2 str) You could use Kukris if you fear the attack malus but it's not even that high (-4 attack for dual wielding medium sized weapons if i remember right?) and Bloodrider gets full BaB progression.
Biggest issue would be lack of feats but you can drop smash and only take weapon focus+DD+Shatter Def and use spells or other companions for the fear/shaken debuff (bards have a song, there is frightening presence lateron)

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by Azure-Ghost:

Originally posted by =M$= Oroberus:

Demonslayer won't work for several reasons, the initially planned class was mentioned above, I'm not changing it. The question was, if this class is dual wield viable while still being able to profit off of it's specific bonusses.

Conclusion: No it's not ;)

Demonslayer isn't viable either because of several reasons (Being a demonslayer that aims to become a demon is way too pseudo imho and Demonslyer not getting a mount is also an issue.

Uhm Demon Slayer does get a mount (at-4 levels so need boon companion) Any hey Illidan (Warcraft) was a demon hunter and used demon powers ;)

Btw where do you get that domain? I don't see no domain on bloodrider O_o and isnt infernal more more of a devil way while Abyssal is demons?

You could drop strengh a bit to get dex higher and use a horse instead of wolf for the size increase spells to compensate for the less strength (well it's far more than just compensating as size increase also boosts reach, damage and alter spells give far more more than just +2 str) You could use Kukris if you fear the attack malus but it's not even that high (-4 attack for dual wielding medium sized weapons if i remember right?) and Bloodrider gets full BaB progression.
Biggest issue would be lack of feats but you can drop smash and only take weapon focus+DD+Shatter Def and use spells or other companions for the fear/shaken debuff (bards have a song, there is frightening presence lateron)

Mh, strange, before I posted I actually checked if Demonslayer gets an animal and I didn't saw it but maybe I was jsut blind xD

Yes, Infernal is more Devil-Like and Abyssal would be the more demonlike bloodline but that's working out combined with the Bloodrager background, the intrinsic rage of the Character makes him not viable to be a devil, even though he has devil blood and therefor pushes him to be a demon.

If the goal would be devil, then Demonslayer would indeed be quite fitting but then I wouldn't use a human but a Tiefling

Regarding the horse, I just don't like horses to be honest and as the Rage-Enlarge will unsaddle me anyways, being unsaddled isn't this big of an issue every once in a while, sure, the character might be untanky as ♥♥♥♥ but making 2 targets out of 1 target means a bigger dmg-intake-spread.

I know, it's tough and strange and weird and nitpicky but I actually want to try to make a core-viable Bloodrider with max 3 dips in other classes that becomes a demon while not being min-maxed to the point he's a munchkin xD

I think I'll go with Bardiche + Mastodon again (worked well but I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the 3 int on my Mastodon -.-)

[Azure-Ghost]

nothing strange about that. Making thematic builds just viable enough to get through the game is one of the big fun things in rpgs like this (though my restarteritis stopping me on the "getting through the game" part xD )

[Schlumpsha]

There are at least two mods which both introduce the Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting feat to WotR. I know of Tome of the Firebird and Dark Codex having it.

What it does is basically make it so that you use Strength rather than Dexterity for Two-Weapon Fighting prerequisites. Needs 13 Str to take the feat, 15 Str for taking the Two-Weapon-Fighting feat, 17 Str for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat and so on and so forth.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

There are at least two mods which both introduce the Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting feat to WotR. I know of Tome of the Firebird and Dark Codex having it.

What it does is basically make it so that you use Strength rather than Dexterity for Two-Weapon Fighting prerequisites. Needs 13 Str to take the feat, 15 Str for taking the Two-Weapon-Fighting feat, 17 Str for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat and so on and so forth.

Uhhh this sounds interesting, will those mods block achievements though?

Originally posted by Azure-Ghost:

nothing strange about that. Making thematic builds just viable enough to get through the game is one of the big fun things in rpgs like this (though my restarteritis stopping me on the "getting through the game" part xD )

Yeah, tell me about, never made it beyond Act 3 ... and took me several years and 300 hours to play through Kingmaker ONCE xD

Btw is there something like a working build planner? My constant restarts partially stem from the issue that I can't efficiently plan my builds ahaead (including prerequisites for feats in terms of Stats/Skills/Feats)