Cat's Grace/Nenio

[Wild Child]

Anyone know why Cat's Grace doesn't work on Nenio? It adds to her ability score but not to her AC and other dexterity related stuff. Anyone know why? Or is it just in my game?

[Uzkin]

Could be Nenio is encumbered. Her STR is low so it can happen.

[Wild Child]

She is not. 😔

[Orion Invictus]

Is she wearing armor?

[Chester]

Building on Orion's comment, all armor has a "maximum dexterity" value to it. If, for example, her armor's max dex value is +3 and her dex bonus is already at +3, then any further gains to it won't have any effect. This is why most mage characters focus on robes, very light, or the Mage Armor spell. If she has armor on, try taking it off and seeing if that produces any effect.

[Wild Child]

Originally posted by chester.longdon:

Building on Orion's comment, all armor has a "maximum dexterity" value to it. If, for example, her armor's max dex value is +3 and her dex bonus is already at +3, then any further gains to it won't have any effect. This is why most mage characters focus on robes, very light, or the Mage Armor spell. If she has armor on, try taking it off and seeing if that produces any effect.

No, she isn't and has never worn any armor. I am familiar with how max dex and armored works. No matter how much I boost her dex, she never gets the boost to AC or the corresponding stats. Her ability scores get the adjustment but it doesn't get calculated into anything else. So weird. I have never seen this happen anywhere else.

[DarkWaterSong]

Have you tried it in her fox vs. human form? Just Kitsune polymorph into a human, and I know there are some issues with polymorph. The fox is the natural form, but even so cat's grace should give you the attribute boost on the character screen no matter what for its duration.

[Wild Child]

Man, I figured it out. I am SO dumb. Nenio isn't proficient in ANY armor so she cannot equip any (unless you take the feats). I came across this weird armor that looks like a waist wrap and put it on her to see what it was since she strangely was able to equip it. I assumed that it wasn't armor even though it uses an armor slot (like knee pads uses the slot for gloves). My dumb ass completely forgot she was wearing that. My bad. Thanks for the help.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Wild Child:

completely forgot she was wearing that

Nenio moment.

[Wild Child]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Wild Child:

completely forgot she was wearing that

Nenio moment.

Ha! Yup.

[DarkWaterSong]

In the table top game what happens is:

Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dex– and Str-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for non-proficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.

And for casting in armor (only for arcane casters):

Casting an Arcane Spell in Armor: A character who casts an arcane spell while wearing armor must usually make an arcane spell failure check. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table: Armor and Shields is the percentage chance that the spell fails and is ruined. If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure.

This means any armor with a 0 armor check penalty and no spell failure can be worn by a wizard or anybody...because it does nothing to you. The game did not explain this clearly and just flagged armors as unwearable vs. making you eat the penalties. Except the Haramaki, which is one of those armors with no spell failure % and no armor penalty.

The funny thing is one of the other ones, Silken Ceremonial Armor, is not even in the game even thought it is the far more common armor. Oh and here are the stats for the two armors:

Haramaki

Eastern Light Armor
Cost 3 gp; Weight 1 lbs.
Armor Bonus +1; Max Dex Bonus —; Armor Check Penalty 0
Arcane Spell Failure Chance 0%; Speed 30 ft./20 ft.

Also called a belly-warmer, a haramaki is a simple silken sash lined with chainmail or articulated metal plates and tied about the stomach to protect it.

Silken Ceremonial Armor

Eastern Light Armor
Cost 30 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
Armor Bonus +1; Max Dex Bonus —; Armor Check Penalty 0
Arcane Spell Failure Chance 0%; Speed 30 ft./20 ft.

Used for ceremonial displays or occasionally worn (albeit with no additional benefit) over heavier armor, these robes consist of several layers of cloth and an outer layer of silk intricately woven with gold brocade designs and covered with metal studs.

All quotes from:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/EQUIPMENT/armor/

[Wild Child]

I see.

[steventirey]

What happens in the tabletop game ultimately doesn't matter. You aren't supposed to be able to use armor or weapons you are not proficient in in the computer game. Wizards shouldn't be able to use haramaki. Not having a penalty shouldn't matter. Besides that, the arcane spell failure chance has absolutely nothing to do with proficiency (which means it should have no impact on the ability to wear it) and other armors have a 0 armor check penalty as well. And wizards can't wear those.

The ability for wizards to wear haramaki in this game is more likely an oversight on the developers part than anything else.

As for the haramaki being the problem in this case, it shouldn't be. As far as I know, the haramaki doesn't have a max dexterity bonus rating. It shouldn't be interfering with Cat's Grace at all. Now Cat's Grace provides an enhancement bonus to Dexterity, and the stat enhancing belts also provide enhancement bonuses. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, so that may be what is causing the issue.

An armor's max dexterity bonus also only has an effect on your armor class. The max dex bonus stuff has no effect at all on any other dexterity-related things like ranged attack rolls or reflex saves. If Cat's Grace is truly having no effect on anything dexterity related as the OP said, it can't be because of an armors maximum dex bonus.

[DarkWaterSong]

Originally posted by steventirey:

What happens in the tabletop game ultimately doesn't matter. You aren't supposed to be able to use armor or weapons you are not proficient in in the computer game. Wizards shouldn't be able to use haramaki. Not having a penalty shouldn't matter. Besides that, the arcane spell failure chance has absolutely nothing to do with proficiency (which means it should have no impact on the ability to wear it) and other armors have a 0 armor check penalty as well. And wizards can't wear those.

The ability for wizards to wear haramaki in this game is more likely an oversight on the developers part than anything else.

As for the haramaki being the problem in this case, it shouldn't be. As far as I know, the haramaki doesn't have a max dexterity bonus rating. It shouldn't be interfering with Cat's Grace at all. Now Cat's Grace provides an enhancement bonus to Dexterity, and the stat enhancing belts also provide enhancement bonuses. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, so that may be what is causing the issue.

I am just saying I wish I could cram the haramaki and other armors with 0 penalty on monks and the like. I just have plenty of other magical armors that get their check down to 0 that I should be able to slap on Ember or the like.

And yes, if this was working as rules the game is based on.... no max Dex means no max dex...and the dex limit only applies to AC...not to things like initiative or your to hit with range weapons. Again I get you need to adapt the table top...but I don't like we are left with something worse than the table top.

[Shahadem]

Frankly armor should not reduce dexterity, this has never made any sense.

Nor does it make sense why armor causes spell casting to fail.

The only reason why people in real life wouldn't have worn armor is because they couldn't afford it.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Shahadem:

Frankly armor should not reduce dexterity, this has never made any sense.

Armor is heavy, can be hard to move around in it, especially for a spellcaster who isn't very strong.

Originally posted by Shahadem:

Nor does it make sense why armor causes spell casting to fail.

If spells require precise motions (which is the case for some spells, I think the proper way to express it is that a spell has a "somatic component"), armor can make that difficult.

Originally posted by Shahadem:

The only reason why people in real life wouldn't have worn armor is because they couldn't afford it.

I mean, I can afford a kevlar vest and I still don't wear it because it's just unnecessary.