Spell Penetration

[~~ The Goth Jock \/]

How is Spell Penetration calculated? exactly? I was browsing though my char records and noticed that all my chars have different values, but they have the same exact number of spell penetration feats (regular and mythic). Wisdom> Intelligence?

[forkofspite]

1d20 + caster level of the spell being cast + other effects that affect rolls against spell resistance.

The ability score of your casting stat does not matter (unless there's a unique ability that overides the general - don't know if there any such abilities in this game.)

Spell penetration and greater spell penetration have the same effect. Mythic spell penetration does as well presuming the characters also have greater spell pen (and have the same mythic rank).

However, other features can vary. Some examples:

* multiclassing
* items
* spell specialization (normal feat)
* school mastery (mythic)
* being an elf

[StarKnight]

Spell penetration, which is also called, for me, "Spell efficiency" is calculated by adding Caster Level + bonuses from feats like "Increased spell efficiency" + Superior increased spell efficiency + Improved School bonus + Superior School + School mastery (mythic)...etc. + other abilities, feats or equipments that increase the DD (Difficulty Degree) of spells as well as the DC of saving rolls and magic resistance, to overcome the magic resistance of enemies...

(EDIT)

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by forkofspite:

Spell penetration and greater spell penetration have the same effect. Mythic spell penetration does as well presuming the characters also have greater spell pen (and have the same mythic rank).

that doesn't quite match the in-game description, Mythic gives a bonus equal to your Mythic rank, halved if you don't have Greater Spell Penetration, so it'll only have the same effect as the regular feats if you're at mythic rank 3, or Mythic 6 without greater spell penetration.

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by SmallGespenst:

that doesn't quite match the in-game description, Mythic gives a bonus equal to your Mythic rank, halved if you don't have Greater Spell Penetration, so it'll only have the same effect as the regular feats if you're at mythic rank 3, or Mythic 6 without greater spell penetration.

Mythic Spell Penetration on Companion A has the same effect as Mythic Spell Penetration on Companion B presuming both have the same mythic rank and either both have greater spell penetration or neither has greater spell penetration.

OP was asking why characters that have the same feats have different spell penetration checks. Presuming they actually have the same feats, spell pen, greater spell pen, and mythic spell pen will not cause a difference between companions A and B.

[Azure-Ghost]

Some Metaspecies also have spell penetration bonus if i remember right base Elves get +2? and halve elves can get the same bonus as a feat.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by forkofspite:

Mythic Spell Penetration on Companion A has the same effect as Mythic Spell Penetration on Companion B presuming both have the same mythic rank and either both have greater spell penetration or neither has greater spell penetration.

OP was asking why characters that have the same feats have different spell penetration checks. Presuming they actually have the same feats, spell pen, greater spell pen, and mythic spell pen will not cause a difference between companions A and B.

ah, yeah that checks out.

Originally posted by Azure-Ghost:

Some Metaspecies also have spell penetration bonus if i remember right base Elves get +2? and halve elves can get the same bonus as a feat.

correct, though full-elves can get a feat that gives an extra +1 on top of that.

[~~ The Goth Jock \/]

Thanks guys for your help! Man, how do you guys know this stuff? Do you guys play the pen & paper version? I used to play the original AD&D and was a DM when I was a kid in the 80s, but D&D has gotten more complicated than ever, especially with all these Feats.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Poeticas:

Thanks guys for your help! Man, how do you guys know this stuff? Do you guys play the pen & paper version? I used to play the original AD&D and was a DM when I was a kid in the 80s, but D&D has gotten more complicated than ever, especially with all these Feats.

The game says all this stuff.

[darkholyPL]

Originally posted by Poeticas:

Thanks guys for your help! Man, how do you guys know this stuff? Do you guys play the pen & paper version? I used to play the original AD&D and was a DM when I was a kid in the 80s, but D&D has gotten more complicated than ever, especially with all these Feats.

The actuall DnD has gotten easier than ever in fact. I'm talking about DnD 5e.
This is Pathfinder 1e, which is a tad complicated, that's true.

[~~ The Goth Jock \/]

Pathfinder definitely had to be influenced by D&D then. They have the same spells such as color spray and many more similarities such as memory spell system instead of mana.

[SmallGespenst]

Spell penetration is one of those things you learn quite well for the first couple of acts since it's a massive pain until you can get it high enough, so doing what you can to mitigate it can help a lot.

[Azure-Ghost]

Originally posted by Poeticas:

Pathfinder definitely had to be influenced by D&D then. They have the same spells such as color spray and many more similarities such as memory spell system instead of mana.

Pathfinder branched off D&D in version 3.x (don't remember if 0 or5) so yea they are related.

[darkholyPL]

Originally posted by Poeticas:

Pathfinder definitely had to be influenced by D&D then. They have the same spells such as color spray and many more similarities such as memory spell system instead of mana.

Yes it was. It's a slightly updated DnD 3.5e.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by Poeticas:

Pathfinder definitely had to be influenced by D&D then. They have the same spells such as color spray and many more similarities such as memory spell system instead of mana.

When Wizards of the Coast made 3.0 D&D, they released it under the Open Gaming License. This license allowed anyone to use the majority of rules in their own products for free, provided they followed the terms of the license. Some of the core rules weren't released (like anything to do with experience points, and certain monsters), so the idea was that for anyone to fully use the third party content, they would need to buy a set of rulebooks from WotC to cover the missing material.

When WotC developed 4th edition D&D, they did so under a far more restrictive license requiring a company to only release material for either 4th edition, or release the material for 3.5 D&D. Paizo chose to keep supporting 3.5 D&D, and in order to do so made their own rules to cover the stuff missing from the game (like experience tables). Add in a few more changes and we got the Pathfinder RPG.

Basically, WotC created the groundwork that created their own competition. Saying Pathfinder was influenced by D&D isn't quite true. Pathfinder is D&D (specifically D&D 3.5), just with some houserules made a part of the core rules.

[jsaving]

Yes, Pathfinder forked from D&D 3.5e following a highly negative fan reaction to D&D 4e. Then ironically Paizo pulled numerous D&D 4e elements into second edition Pathfinder and currently has a member of the D&D 4e brain trust running PF2e. This has split the Pathfinder fan base in the same way, and for the same reasons, D&D 4e originally split the D&D fan base. So you currently have a large number of Pathfinder players sticking with PF1e despite Paizo having ended support for that product, and a smaller but still significant number of players defecting back to D&D with the release of D&D 5e, which sought to drop the worst-received elements of 4e and offer something that could unify players.