A legendary path for a mage.

[kud1]

I just got to the point where we meet Iomedae (act 5 i think) and I really don't know what to do.
I play a wizard / azata. I can go on with this path, turn it into a golden dragon or become a legend. But frankly speaking, while a dragon has some interesting abilities for a spellcasting character, the legend seems to be just a serious weakness. What if I can advance to level 40 if my CS is 20 anyway (28 with prestige class) and I'm losing powerful buffs such as mystical spell penetration, ascendant element etc.
The legend has some fictional justification, but mechanically it makes sense only for melee characters. It sounds like a joke to magicians.

[Amoc]

Първоначално публикувано от IlluminaZero:

You could also use the added feats Legend gains (IE Lv 20-40) to boost DCs using "Expanded Arsenal." I've never tried it but you could theoretically super charge one school this way - Each spell focus would give +2 DCs per feat and you have an additional 10 feats (minimum) to play with.

Pretty sure the feats don't stack. I think the point of that mythic feat is to expand your list of focus schools efficiently with one mythic feat rather than 2-3 normal feats for classes that are often starving for feats.

The Legend Path could make a very versatile caster, with varied spell focuses and either both spell lists (arcane and divine) or a full-caster combined with a full martial kit. Any of the above would suck compared to a focused mythic caster IMO, since action economy is everything and you're better off doing something specific very well rather than a bunch of things decently.

[IlluminaZero]

Unless Owlcat patched it "Expanded Arsenal" applies all other school bonuses to the selected school. The only real Q in the past was whether this is intentional behavior or not but the wording doesn't contradict this mechanical behavior:

"Select one school of magic. All bonuses from your feats and mythic feats that apply to another school of magic, such as Spell Focus feat and School Specialization mythic feat, now apply to the chosen school of magic too."

"ALL bonuses that apply to another school of magic"

If this still works that would mean that Legend can get really high DCs for a specific school of magic - Like say Illusion, Enchantment, or Abjuration.

There are some odd mechanical behaviors that easily fly under the radar. For example: I've achieved >60 spell penetration using "Allied Spellcaster."

[Amoc]

Първоначално публикувано от IlluminaZero:

Unless Owlcat patched it "Expanded Arsenal" applies all other school bonuses to the selected school. The only real Q in the past was whether this is intentional behavior or not but the wording doesn't contradict this mechanical behavior:

Seems you are right. It's a pretty clear exploit I think and I doubt it's intended, but from what I've read it seems to be possible.

[IlluminaZero]

Well if it is unintentional its a very pleasant accident. Casters are frequently too feat starved to really benefit from this barring Legend and it gives Caster focused Legends something to build around.

[MjKorz]

Demon > Aeon = Azata > Trickster > Lich > Angel > Legend

This is the main mythic path power ranking for pure spellcasters in the game.

Azata is perfectly suited to be a spellcaster, it is a mythic path that gets the highest effective spell DC boost out of all mythic paths in chapter 3 through Favorable Magic and Ode to Miraculous Magic: +4 on average for spells that target Fortitude/Reflex and +6 on average for spells that target Will.

Azata is so highly ranked, because early game spellpower > late game spellpower.

If you switch from Azata to Legend or Gold Dragon, you lose spellcasting prowess, because you lose inherent spell persistency, unless you're a ray caster who doesn't care about it and just wants more sides on their damage dice from Gold Dragon.

Avoid Legend as a caster.

[Steffan]

GO for it!!!

(if your heart wills it, of course)

If crossed with a magus, a Legend caster can become a beast. Dragonkind III, Arcane Accuracy, Prescient Attack and Dimensional Strike is what you need.

On Hard, my mage was a force to be reckoned with, the biggest damage dealer, 1000 hp and delivering attacks against flat footed enemies or as touch attack. I've also done the Inevitable Excess and his performance was outstanding there as well (defeated a demigod from the first blind try). I just got Sosiel and Daeran to keep him healed all the time. I played most of the campaign in turn based; for the Inevitable Excess and the Areelu fight went real time with pause.

Keep in mind my sorcerer was charisma & strength based, Abyssal bloodline (+6 strength from bloodline)... He got 20 levels as a sorcerer, 7 levels as Eldritch Knight and 13 levels as magus. I might even post some pictures later on as I am really proud of my creation.

Azata never really completely fit him... yes... it does increase the effectivenss of spells and mythic feats... but as a melee he could do tremendous damage, too. 500-600hp per round.

And by the way withmy build I could make dispel caster levels at level 26 (because the eldritch knight stacks to level 28, I think)... making him the best dispeller in the group. Spell resistance was barely an issue but once I went legend I did not use a lot of spells (mostly horrid wilting). It was not really necessary.

The mythic abilities I took first and kept were last stand and the one giving you immunity to magic (activated and deactivated as a free action).

I do not know if Legend is the most powerful caster but it is definitely a strong character. As a matter of fact... I mostly used mind blank mass, greater invisibilty and buffs. Offensive spells were not really needed :D Ever dreamed for a mage who enters combat? That's the moment. :)

Edited: Added a picture. Buffs from Dragonkind III not applied on the picture. The picture is taken right before the final fight of the main campaign

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2883625018

[Shahadem]

Legendary path is just stupid. The game shouldn't even be winnable without the demigod powers the crystals provide. Going legendary should nerf your stats into the GROUND and never let you raise them. And nerf the stats of your companions and your crusade armies because the Nahyndrian crystals are buffing all of them which is why they are suddenly winning with you at the helm and everyone essentially worshiping you.

And really the ONLY reason why Iomedae wants you to give up your powers is because she is jealous that everyone has switched from worshiping her to worshiping you because you are actually helping them unlike her.

Iomedae claims she cannot interfere because that would start a war in the worldwound but this is a clear lie because:
1) DEMONS ARE ALREADY POURING THROUGH THE WORLDWOUND AND ENGAGING IN AN ALL OUT WAR AGAINST GOLARION.
2) Since Iomedae is more powerful than the demon lords by an order of magnitude according to the story then she could just snap her fingers and wipe the demons out of existence.

So either Iomedae isn't nearly as powerful as she and the story claim or else she has another reason for not interfering. Perhaps Iomedae would be worshiped even less if there was no Worldwound and no one was worried about a demon invasion. If this is a gods need worship scenario then yes, Iomedae would want the Worldwound to remain open because the worldwound is causing her to be worshipped more whereas closing the worldwound would force her to have to actually work to gain and keep worshippers.

[IlluminaZero]

Oddly enough the only thing I hate about the Legend mythic path is spoilers relating to Best Mom. The premise of it isn't really that unreasonable by that point of the game since there is a pretty high probability you've spent most of Chapter 2, Chapter 3, and even portions of Chapter 4 with limited mythic path abilities. (This is especially notable with Aeon and Trickster...)

The KC has exception point-buy but is technically outdone by default companions. Even ignoring obvious Outliers like Arushale - Seelah has 28 point buy to the KC's 25.

One nice thing about video games is that the mechanics can function as a narrative device and the only time you absolutely need mythic powers are the very beginning against Minagho.

The party members stop gaining mythic levels the moment you reject your mythic powers (which just implies that they have independent ownership of it, spill-over?). Your army has no mythic influence in chapter 2 and limited influence in chapter 3 - With your character basically utilizing abilities on them rather than them "owning" the abilities independently like your party members.

[MaltyPop]

Legend caster is ok. Just focus illusion and kill everything with Weird and Phantasmal killer. You'll have zero issues with spell pen. It's just a vanilla playstyle that doesn't make full use of the 20 additional character levels. Legend's BAB is king, so it's more fun buffing your 10+ auto attacks instead.

Първоначално публикувано от MjKorz:

Demon > Aeon = Azata > Trickster > Lich > Angel > Legend

This is the main mythic path power ranking for pure spellcasters in the game.

What are you smoking? Angel and Lich beat out EVERYONE because of merged spellbooks. I haven't played Demon yet but I would imagine the caster ranking is more like:
Angel (Oracle/Cleric) = Lich (Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch) > Azata (Single Target Blasters) > Everything else

[IlluminaZero]

Demon mythic from a pure min-max perspective can achieve ridiculous DC both through buffs and via nerfing enemy saves, double cast move/act, force 2 dice rolls, and perhaps other things I forgot ATM.

However I do think it is a bit overrated due to full game progression + reliance on demon rages. Angel and Lich get massive immediate power spikes at Mystic 3 + really good unique spells atop of highest caster levels. As MjKorz mentioned Azata not only benefit early from Zippy/Favorable magic but they are PERSISTENTLY active unlike Demon Rages.

Aspect of Socothbenoth vs Favorable Magic for example is a terrible crime lol.

I haven't gotten to an Aeon playthrough yet but one of the main complaints I keep hearing about Aeon is progression based as well. Late game Aeon is undeniably awesome tho.

[MjKorz]

Първоначално публикувано от Malty:

Legend caster is ok. Just focus illusion and kill everything with Weird and Phantasmal killer.

Legend is a joke of a DC caster, a joke of a ray caster and a joke of a dispeller. The stat bonuses you get are massively overshadowed by the spellcasting mythic synergies other paths get. Show me your Legend Illusionist overcoming the saves of Unfair Areshkagal:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2835084622

Първоначално публикувано от Malty:

You'll have zero issues with spell pen.

No one has any issues with spell penetration. Everyone can overshoot the highest SR in the game of 46. Even mentioning spell penetration is a good indicator that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Първоначално публикувано от Malty:

What are you smoking? Angel and Lich beat out EVERYONE because of merged spellbooks. I haven't played Demon yet but I would imagine the caster ranking is more like:
Angel (Oracle/Cleric) = Lich (Wizard/Sorcerer/Witch) > Azata (Single Target Blasters) > Everything else

Angel and Lich are a joke compared to actually good spellcasting mythic paths like Demon, Aeon and Azata. Merging spellbooks gives you no defining advantage in this game for three reasons: spell penetration is extremely easy to stack, increasing CL does not increase your spell DC and the highest damage dealing spell in the game does not scale past CL19 which any full caster can reach.

Demon gets a total of +26 spell DC from many sources, cast as move action, inherent spell persistency.

Aeon gets +4 spell DC from gaze, AoE version of Touch of Law (effective +9 spell DC), cast as move action, equalize main casting stat to strength which can be buffed into the 80+ range and AoE dispels everything without failure and utterly mogs the Lich as a dispeller due to Lich having no AoE on Corrupt Magic (extremely important in IE).

Azata gets to enjoy early spell persistency and gets the highest effective EARLY spell DC boost out of all mythic paths: +6 effective spell DC almost at the very start of chapter 3.

Lich is severely overrated by people who have no clue how the game works. It gets only a meager +2 spell DC boost from Cloak of Darkest Rites in the endgame and has to play catch up with actually good spellcasting mythic paths by casting Corrupt Magic - a single target spell that also consumes a level 9 spell slot and a standard/swift action, making it massively inferior to a passive or AoE effective spell DC bonus. A good spellcaster can cast an extra level 9 spell instead of Corrupt Magic that will kill/disable an extra pack of mobs. Moreover, Corrupt Magic only works against targets who have many buffs on and fails spectacularly against unfair Areshkagal - a boss with massive saves that has almost nothing to dispel. Lich also gets no inherent spell persistency and cannot cast as a move action. A joke of a caster.

Trickster is the strongest ray caster in the game capable of doing 4.5k damage twice per round.

Angel is a divine caster - the weakest of the bunch by definition and not even worth mentioning.

Първоначално публикувано от Malty:

I haven't played Demon

Then your opinions don't matter.

[SmallGespenst]

Първоначално публикувано от Shahadem:

Iomedae claims she cannot interfere because that would start a war in the worldwound but this is a clear lie because:
1) DEMONS ARE ALREADY POURING THROUGH THE WORLDWOUND AND ENGAGING IN AN ALL OUT WAR AGAINST GOLARION.
2) Since Iomedae is more powerful than the demon lords by an order of magnitude according to the story then she could just snap her fingers and wipe the demons out of existence.

So either Iomedae isn't nearly as powerful as she and the story claim or else she has another reason for not interfering. Perhaps Iomedae would be worshiped even less if there was no Worldwound and no one was worried about a demon invasion. If this is a gods need worship scenario then yes, Iomedae would want the Worldwound to remain open because the worldwound is causing her to be worshipped more whereas closing the worldwound would force her to have to actually work to gain and keep worshippers.

this is actually explained by the time Desna killed a Demon Lord and all of the other demon lords stopped squabbling and actually unified which was an absolutely terrifying threat, barely defused by Calistra doing her thing and turning them back on each other.
Iomedae getting personally involved would present the risk of another Coalition of Chaos and a resulting all-out planar war.
the World Wound Confilict has what? two or three Demon Lords involved? imagine if over thirty Demon Lords were going after a piece of Golarion.

[kud1]

Iomedae claims she cannot interfere because that would start a war in the worldwound but this is a clear lie because:
1) DEMONS ARE ALREADY POURING THROUGH THE WORLDWOUND AND ENGAGING IN AN ALL OUT WAR AGAINST GOLARION.
2) Since Iomedae is more powerful than the demon lords by an order of magnitude according to the story then she could just snap her fingers and wipe the demons out of existence.

From what she said, she does not want to intervene personally so as not to cause a total war between heaven, elysium, abyss and hell. When you ask her why she won't kill the Nocticula on the spot, she will say that this would make any demon lord fight against her. Of course, she would win in the end, but there would be ashes left of the material plane.
Not to mention that she is right when she states that the commander would not trust the power he had received from a demonic source.
I haven't finished the game yet and I don't know if it has any consequences later.

[Zyllen]

Първоначално публикувано от MjKorz:

Angel is a divine caster - the weakest of the bunch by definition and not even worth mentioning.

I would have agreed with you if it was not for the fact that angels have bolt and storm of justice. Both spells don't need DC and you can easily get them over 700 damage per cast with the correct metamagic

[Raikon]

Първоначално публикувано от MjKorz:

Demon > Aeon = Azata > Trickster > Lich > Angel > Legend

This is the main mythic path power ranking for pure spellcasters in the game.

Azata is perfectly suited to be a spellcaster, it is a mythic path that gets the highest effective spell DC boost out of all mythic paths in chapter 3 through Favorable Magic and Ode to Miraculous Magic: +4 on average for spells that target Fortitude/Reflex and +6 on average for spells that target Will.

Azata is so highly ranked, because early game spellpower > late game spellpower.

If you switch from Azata to Legend or Gold Dragon, you lose spellcasting prowess, because you lose inherent spell persistency, unless you're a ray caster who doesn't care about it and just wants more sides on their damage dice from Gold Dragon.

Avoid Legend as a caster.

You forgot gold dragon, and devil.