rogue : i always die

[Masterpeing]

what the fu. i just started a rogue and its useless as hell i cant go hide and kill ppl just insta die in battle i need restart and select other? ir just iam a useless player?

[Masterpeing]

seriusly cant pass first act i all enemies wipe me fast what the problem wi th this game?

[Goilveig]

Well a pathfinder rogue plays very different from rogues in other games (it's not about sneaking up on enemies per se) but they can deal a high amount of damage and also receive a high amount of damage.

I have a rogue in my endgame party (Woljif) and at one point you get an item that lets you summon a mount as long as the character doesn't already have one, and Woljif does great with it because almost everything targets the mount instead, and mounts are great tanks.

[IlluminaZero]

The system mechanics don't really compliment going full stealth in a Kinda... Metal Gear or Tenchu way. Generally you're going to use "sneak attack" to get more damage. Typically with "flanking." Namely as flanking is extremely easy to achieve as it only requires two melee to be engaging a single opponent.

Rogues can be nuanced to use in both real time and turn based. Namely as even with easy flanking rules you still need to [move->attack] -> [Full attack]. How this can easily play out is that you move -> attack. Then the enemy targets your Rogue due to being squishy and you die before you get your full attack in.

For a newbie Rogue I actually recommend going ranged (you can still sneak attack with ranged weapons) or going STR Rowdy Rogue with a reach weapon (Long Spear and Polearms).

Slayer in a broad sense is also a good way to get a Fighter/Rogue that has higher accuracy and isn't as squishy.

[Masterpeing]

thanks iam doing better now, i just got double weapon skill and do better damage and critcs.

[Masterpeing]

Originally posted by Goilveig:

Well a pathfinder rogue plays very different from rogues in other games (it's not about sneaking up on enemies per se) but they can deal a high amount of damage and also receive a high amount of damage.

I have a rogue in my endgame party (Woljif) and at one point you get an item that lets you summon a mount as long as the character doesn't already have one, and Woljif does great with it because almost everything targets the mount instead, and mounts are great tanks.

thanks for this! will see it.

[Chester]

Rogues are generally frail and especially in the early game. Later on if you've built a Dex Rogue (or an Eldritch Rogue like Woljiff and can cast spells) you'll have a lot more options for defense.

The best advice I can give for that point is to hold your Rogue back a round and wait for engagement to start (or just put them in the back of the formation). Seelah moves at 20 Speed, so your Rogue (and maybe Camellia) are likely to reach the enemy first. The enemy will usually focus on the first unit to engage them (though not always, sometimes they'll chase units in your back line, it depends). So send in Seelah first, she's almost certainly much tankier than your Rogue at this point, and then after the enemy/enemies takes a swing at her bring the Rogue in for that sweet backstab damage - backstab damage won't take effect anyway if your rogue takes the first swing at the enemy. You'll lose a round of combat from your Rogue but save yourself a reload. Just remember to have Seelah attacking whatever unit your Rogue is attacking, otherwise they won't get the flanking bonus to attack and backstab damage won't go into effect.

[Quillithe]

You can also engage with two allies for flanking and then sneak attack with ranged attacks from within 30 feet (or ranged touch spells even).

You won't do as much damage as using two weapons, but it's a way to safely contribute until you start getting some better protective options.

EDIT: Oops, someone already said this more or less.

[Kinzuko]

just engage ally target to get sneak attacks and try to go first to attack before the enemy can move, rogues are very strong- why do you think a lot of builds dip into rogue or other archetypes that get sneak attack.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Masterpeing:

what the fu. i just started a rogue and its useless as hell i cant go hide and kill ppl just insta die in battle i need restart and select other? ir just iam a useless player?

Pure rogue is not meant to tank, ever. It's a glass cannon that is meant to proc its many sneak attack dice from its high number of attacks due to dual wielding (and in the best case scenario bites + gore) as well as provide team benefits by debuffing enemy AC and AB via double debilitation. You're supposed to enlarge yourself which will grant you reach and then attack from the second row (from behind your tank).

If you want to play a """Rogue""" who can tank, your best bet is the Vivisector:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2876370958

[hilburnashua]

There are also a lot of ways for enemies to prevent your sneak attack dice. If you cannot catch them flatfooted or flank them (the last is rare). If they have immunity to precision damage. Or, and this is a huge one, if they have concealment. Another big issue is that sneak attack dice are not multiplied on critical hits which makes building just for sneak attack not so great when it comes to raw damage as opposed to crit fisher builds.

Oh, and do remember you can delay a character's action until later in the turn to allow another character to move into position so when your rogue moves in and attacks they will have flanking.

[t]

rogues are skill monkeys with some sneak attacks
keep them at range with a bow. they are generally too squishy to go into melee unless your build is designed properly around it

[Vae Victis]

Dont know how you feel about multi-classing but, 2 levels with Witch of the veil can make you a more "sneaky" rogue.

I think its better to run Woljifs class than straight rogue. Getting buffs for yourself can really increase your AC and survivability. Rogue is a good dip for multiclassing but needs buffs to stay in the frontline without any reach.