Eldritch Scion vs melee kineticist.

[malkavius77]

Kineticist was always a class i steered away from since I don't really enjoy ranged blasters even though I am aware they are strong as all hell. ES i never played much but they have a lot of versatility in their builds. Both have melee and ranged capabilities and can get good touch attacks. Just curious which would be stronger over all not accounting for mythic paths.

[Memnarch]

Eldritch overall are weak vs base kineticist.

what difficulty are you on?

[malkavius77]

Typically i play on core or hard. While base kineticist is stronger than pretty much everything, that's usually as a ranged blaster/deadly earth in mind. Not much talk on a melee one.

[Memnarch]

Check out this guys (mostly) melee centered guide.

He focuses on Demon path with a strong synergy between Kalavakus Aspect and Earthblast trips. It also has tips for the Kinetic blade, etc.

https://youtu.be/PaM5X8xmTQo

[Conquista]

eldritch scion has an better time than a melee kineticist, ES can stack easier ac and needs less feats to work, no spell penetration needed

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Foori:

Check out this guys (mostly) melee centered guide.

He focuses on Demon path with a strong synergy between Kalavakus Aspect and Earthblast trips. It also has tips for the Kinetic blade, etc.

https://youtu.be/PaM5X8xmTQo

That's why I said stronger regardless of mythic paths. Obviously demon trip path is strong with any kineticist. I was talking about the classes on their own.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Conquista:

eldritch scion has an better time than a melee kineticist, ES can stack easier ac and needs less feats to work, no spell penetration needed

Kineticist is light on required feats so can you elaborate? Also how is spell pen not needed for an ES? It's a hybrid who should be using offensive spells you need spell pen/ascended element/ and elemental barrage to do well with both. If they aren't going to use spells offensively I would just play a sword saint which I have done plenty of times.

PS I am not trying to sound rude I am just curious on your conclusions.

[Conquista]

i'm mean yes ES, pretty much plays like sword saint in the pathfinder videogame adaptions, both are gish classes that buff themself up and hit stuff with a stick

at least thats the typcial build that i had in mind when asked for a comparison between ES and melee kineticist

while a spellcombat focused ES is playable its such a slog, you will need to be in turnbased mode all the time to get the most out of spellcombat, in rtwp that mechanic sucks, but i'm not sure if that is even an issue for you

oh while a kineticist is definitely light on feats, a melee kineticist will still need all the typical melee feats to survive close combat in addition to spell penetration

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Conquista:

i'm mean yes ES, pretty much plays like sword saint in the pathfinder videogame adaptions, both are gish classes that buff themself up and hit stuff with a stick

at least thats the typcial build that i had in mind when asked for a comparison between ES and melee kineticist

while a spellcombat focused ES is playable its such a slog, you will need to be in turnbased mode all the time to get the most out of spellcombat, in rtwp that mechanic sucks, but i'm not sure if that is even an issue for you

oh while a kineticist is definitely light on feats, a melee kineticist will still need all the typical melee feats to survive close combat in addition to spell penetration

I have never found SS to play like ES. at least in the few times I have played one. SS is just a buff and melee class they aren't meant to use their spells in fights even though they get spell combat and spellstrike. ES of course buffs but typically has more spells to cast offensively. If it just buff and attacks it would be a bottom tier class since SS kicks it's ass in melee and competes or surpasses it in AC depending on each subclasses build.

[Conquista]

SS is better than ES, but ES ain't the bottom tier magus, stuff like armored battlemage or spelldancer still exist, like all of these melee magus play roughly the same, its just with little different spin on it, some turn out really good like SS, some really bad like armored battlemage, some just in the middle and decent enough like ES

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Conquista:

SS is better than ES, but ES ain't the bottom tier magus, stuff like armored battlemage or spelldancer still exist, like all of these melee magus play roughly the same, its just with little different spin on it, some turn out really good like SS, some really bad like armored battlemage, some just in the middle and decent enough like ES

My point was if ES was just buff and attack it would be pretty bad. Then again you are right if any magus or subclasses are buff and go they are bad compared to SS.

[Razer]

One of the main features of a Magus is the Arcane Weapon ability which allows you to bypass certain enemy features like damage resistance and concealment, but most importantly gives you the means to apply Elemental Barage on each hit. Melee Kineticists are really annoying and boring to play the first 10 levels or so. And if you go with Kinetic knight you can forego a bit of that annoyance, but you basically give up everything that makes a kineticist so strong in the first place.

[Razer]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Conquista:

SS is better than ES, but ES ain't the bottom tier magus, stuff like armored battlemage or spelldancer still exist, like all of these melee magus play roughly the same, its just with little different spin on it, some turn out really good like SS, some really bad like armored battlemage, some just in the middle and decent enough like ES

My point was if ES was just buff and attack it would be pretty bad. Then again you are right if any magus or subclasses are buff and go they are bad compared to SS.

You can build a magus as a spell slinger if you want. They have full caster level. Eldritch Scion is not worse than Sword Saint. Eldritch Scion can gain 2 bloodlines which can grant a lot of power. (+6STR from Abyssal Bloodline, +4Natural AC+3dodge AC from Dragon, and a lot of resistances from both) Nothing to scoff at. I like both ES and SS, if you go pure, then both have their pros. I'm not really sure which has the upper hand though. I mean SS gets more initiative, which is nice, plus a free exotic weapon proficiency if you want it. It also gets a crit dmg bonus at max level, but that's at the end of the game. They both have good level progression in terms of gaining power.

[provokastoras]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

My point was if ES was just buff and attack it would be pretty bad. Then again you are right if any magus or subclasses are buff and go they are bad compared to SS.

You can build a magus as a spell slinger if you want. They have full caster level. Eldritch Scion is not worse than Sword Saint. Eldritch Scion can gain 2 bloodlines which can grant a lot of power. (+6STR from Abyssal Bloodline, +4Natural AC+3dodge AC from Dragon, and a lot of resistances from both) Nothing to scoff at. I like both ES and SS, if you go pure, then both have their pros. I'm not really sure which has the upper hand though. I mean SS gets more initiative, which is nice, plus a free exotic weapon proficiency if you want it. It also gets a crit dmg bonus at max level, but that's at the end of the game. They both have good level progression in terms of gaining power.

there used to be a greataxe in the game with 18-20 threat range and 3* crits. I suppose a sword saint with mythic critical focus greataxe is gonna have a blast with that thing, and make kinetic knight damage output look like a bad joke....
that being said there are 2 rings that increase the threat range of kinetic blasts but last time I played kinetist mythic critical blast was bugged so no 750 hp criticals for me T.T