Sorceror vs wizard?

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Which one is better and why?

[darkholyPL]

If you know what spells you will need and actually use, sorc ofc. Much more casting potential, better nuker.
If you want to pick and choose the right spell for the right time, wizard. Less of a nuker, more variaty.
Sorc can change the element of spells to one specific thing (let's say fire) so you don't need to worry about what element something is, wizard can't do that (unless you dip in sorc, which is silly, just go with sorc then).

In all honesty, in videogame format, sorc is just better most of the time. Once you know which spells are THE spells for a given game, then it's sorc all the way. It was like that in BG, in IWD ect.. and it's like that here as well.

[Uzkin]

Depends on the difficulty. Generally, a wizard (when exploiting the mechanics correctly) can reach higher spell DC than a sorcerer. Thus, on higher difficulties a wizard might be the better choice (also depending on the mythic path and party composition) whereas on the lower difficulties sorcerer might be better.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by darkholyPL:

In all honesty, in videogame format, sorc is just better most of the time. Once you know which spells are THE spells for a given game, then it's sorc all the way. It was like that in BG, in IWD ect.. and it's like that here as well.

I starting to notice this.

[Matt]

Arcanist ! They get the best of both worlds, imo.
Plus, BFT has the Powerful Change and Share Transmutation abilities, which is huge.

[Homer Morisson]

It depends on what you want to do.

Personally, I VASTLY(!) prefer Sorc over Wizard due to the fact that I _HATE_ the extra micromanagement hassle of having to prepare spells and then only being able to access them after resting.

Sorc on the other hand has _all_ of his spells available _all_ the time.

Yes, Sorc gets a bit less variety and number of individual spells, but I never really found that to be an issue... Sorc has a number of amazing single target damage spells, AoE damage, plus a good choice of Crowd Control and Terrain stuff.

For everything else, the Sorc also could simply use Scrolls, thus vastly improving his flexibility and choice of spells, with much less micromanagement required, as you'd only need Scrolls occasionally, not constantly, like you would with the preparing of spells for the Wizard.

Also: Sorcerers get Metamagic, Wizards don't.
And Metamagic, if used smartly, is a _massive_ game changer.

Last but not least, Sorc's main stat is CHA, and thus Sorc's an *ideal* Face, as CHA is what you want the most in that case usually.

Wizards on the other hand _can_ have much more flexibility due to the sheer number of spells available to them, but that's a decidedly double-edged sword:

1. You'd only be able to truly exploit that high flexibility if you _constantly_ micromanaged your Wizard by _constantly_ fine-tuning his prepared spells and then _constantly_ resting every. single. time.

2. For new players especially, even the Sorc spell list can get a bit overwhelming, trying to identify what's really useful and what isn't, where to invest Metamagic, etc... now enters the Wizard with a vastly larger list of spells available, making choosing the right ones that much more tricky.

[Corbeau]

Sorc hands down, especially if you will be going with a mythic path that provides merged spell books. My lich had almost all the spells available to wizards for each level.

Wizards' main advantage - flexibility is not fully realized in CRPGs, you need to play TTRPG to enjoy this class properly.

[Homer Morisson]

Originally posted by Corbeau:

Sorc hands down, especially if you will be going with a mythic path that provides merged spell books. My lich had almost all the spells available to wizards for each level.

Wizards' main advantage - flexibility is not fully realized in CRPGs, you need to play TTRPG to enjoy this class properly.

Yep, I can also confirm that Sorc + Lich is an insanely(!) powerful beast combo when merged, with Spell DC easily hitting 30 in the end.

[Matt]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

Last but not least, Sorc's main stat is CHA, and thus Sorc's an *ideal* Face, as CHA is what you want the most in that case usually.

At least until the middle of Act 3, there isn't a single time when you're limited to using the MC Persuasion. So, anybody can be the face, really. And since a Witch is so useful (Protective Luck, Evil Eye, Fortune, Slumber, in addition to some good spells), I'd rather have a Stigmatized Witch (Ember or merc) as the party face and an INT caster (BFT) that will take care of the INT skills. All in all, I find it much more efficient than a Sorcerer.

[SentosKarum]

I tend to run both at once.

The sorc is for spells you know you want to use often, buffs etc., per rest.

The wizard ist be able to adapt your spells if necessary towards an encounter, It is also a holdover habit from BG where leanring spells from scrolls granted XP.

[Homer Morisson]

Originally posted by Matt:

Arcanist ! They get the best of both worlds, imo.
Plus, BFT has the Powerful Change and Share Transmutation abilities, which is huge.

The true "Best of both worlds" would be Sorcerer + Toybox enabled setting "All Casters can learn from Scrolls", heh.

Thus your Sorc can get the same amount of spells as a Wizard.

And while most ppl would of course call that cheating, for me personally ... it never once made a lick of sense to me why only the Wizard should be able to learn a spell from a Scroll, but no other arcane casting class could.

Especially since: Sorcs have *innate* magic, magic is a part of their very *being*, whereas Wizards had to study for decades to be able to use magic, so if anything, Sorcs should be able to easily understand magic from a Scroll.

I always felt that this rule was stupid to the extreme, and balancing issues could have been solved much more elegantly, for example by making learned spells for Sorcs more costly to cast... that way they could still learn them as long as they can read, but because this form o magic study isn't their usual cup of tea, they'd have a harder time applying that theoretical knowledge, or something along those lines.^^

[Drake]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

Originally posted by Matt:

Arcanist ! They get the best of both worlds, imo.
Plus, BFT has the Powerful Change and Share Transmutation abilities, which is huge.

The true "Best of both worlds" would be Sorcerer + Toybox enabled setting "All Casters can learn from Scrolls", heh.

Thus your Sorc can get the same amount of spells as a Wizard.

And while most ppl would of course call that cheating, for me personally ... it never once made a lick of sense to me why only the Wizard should be able to learn a spell from a Scroll, but no other arcane casting class could.

Especially since: Sorcs have *innate* magic, magic is a part of their very *being*, whereas Wizards had to study for decades to be able to use magic, so if anything, Sorcs should be able to easily understand magic from a Scroll.

I always felt that this rule was stupid to the extreme, and balancing issues could have been solved much more elegantly, for example by making learned spells for Sorcs more costly to cast... that way they could still learn them as long as they can read, but because this form o magic study isn't their usual cup of tea, they'd have a harder time applying that theoretical knowledge, or something along those lines.^^

If we get into toybox and other cheating stuff, the best of both worlds would be an eldritch scoundrel with 9 spell levels, arcane and divine, with spontaneous casting, full bab, full sneak attacks, can pick fighter training and have a pet.

Let's just stick to what is actually allowed by the rules without cheating.

[Corbeau]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

Originally posted by Corbeau:

Sorc hands down, especially if you will be going with a mythic path that provides merged spell books. My lich had almost all the spells available to wizards for each level.

Wizards' main advantage - flexibility is not fully realized in CRPGs, you need to play TTRPG to enjoy this class properly.

Yep, I can also confirm that Sorc + Lich is an insanely(!) powerful beast combo when merged, with Spell DC easily hitting 30 in the end.

Actually, it is easy to reach Spell DC in mid 40s or even 50s with a sorc/lich ;)

Final fight in Inevitable Excess DLC on Hard 2 bosses with 2 phases each took me only 5 rounds as my Lich was murdering everything and everyone.

[ayrtep]

I prefer wizard's extra feats, and the stronger schools bonuses (particularly evocation) to bloodlines.

[gamers.txt]

Theoretically, diviner wizard on Demon path. Metamagic that does not take a full round and the synergies with the Int boosts on the demon path; combined with the diviner's absurd abilities.

[Stink Bug]

If you start investing in favorite metamagic for “free” boosts to your spells, then Wizard looks a lot more compelling to not have to deal with that full-round casting. Sorcerous reflex helps somewhat since quickened trumps the penalty, but in turn-based not being able to move and use your metamagiced spells for spontaneous casters is really annoying.