Bloodrager

[Gorwe]

If not talking about Primalist, what's the point of Rager? It feels entirely meh when compared to Barbarian. You trade away almost every offensive advantage only so you could have a slight lead in defense? Like, why?

Then there is question of flavor. Bloodragers(Crusade unit) are like SUPER FUN! You charge in, activate Static Strike and LOK TAR OGAR(...whatever)! That's how a Rager should feel like. Currently it's just a Barbarian with few buffs. On the other hand you have a Magus who gives you EXACTLY THAT playstyle! If Kensei, you can literally play like that AND actually give Barb a run for its money.

So...? Non Primalist Rager is good why exactly? Would be nice if Bloodlines gave active powers like the Crusade Unit, not random buffs. That's not to mention that Arcane Magic by itself sucks in the Warpriest(=buff up and tear down) playstyle - Arcane has by far more powerful and useful applications. It just feels meh in Warpriest area. Besides, why should a Rager be an Arcane version of Warpriest(similar question could be asked about eScoundrel who is practically an Arcane Cult Leader lol - which is exactly why I don't use Woljif ; it's just depressing next to an actual Magus or Warpriest)?

[Conquista]

like what

the thing barbarians and primalist have going for them is pounce, so just get a skald in your party and any bloodrager will do as good as them offensive wise

bloodrager is a more martial less magical gish class, some people like that stuff, its comparable to paladin or ranger, all three of them are full bab and have only access to level 4 spellcasting

if you want to go less martial and more magical you can chose to pick average bab classes like magus or warpriest, in the end its different flavour for different people

[jsaving]

Barbarians aren't weak by any means, but a properly built bloodrager offers higher DPS as well as access to mage-only buffs like mirror image. Unless you're thinking of instinctual warrior which I would agree is super-strong.

[ptirodaktill]

With the introduction of Scald Barbarians are the weakest martial class in the game, cause now your entire team can pounce and benefit from rage power.
As for primalist you gain some buffs and 6m reach on natural attacks from serpent bloodline. Can do memes with 100500 bite attacks per rounds.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Barbarians aren't weak by any means, but a properly built bloodrager offers higher DPS as well as access to mage-only buffs like mirror image. Unless you're thinking of instinctual warrior which I would agree is super-strong.

How does a Rager have higher dps(Lethal Stance by itself is a huge boon for a Barb)? Let's discount the possibility of Skald. It's present on both sides of equation, so it should get disregarded.

Regardless, Rager is super disappointing to me. Raging Magus is more of what I had in mind. It's ... just not that. It's doubtful how much more tanky in reality it is. Displacement and Mirror Image are the selling points, but in Wrath...True Seeing? Later on it is everywhere, Barb can be more tanky in practice.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by jsaving:

mage-only buffs like mirror image.

Just read a scroll. If you're using magic for defense, you want to be able to read scrolls anyway to cast seamantle and Bloodrager spellcasting doesn't go that high.

Personally, I don't like the Bloodrager class and consider their spellcasting to be a worthless meme. You can drink a potion for archmage armor and Nenio will scribe you all the Shield and Mirror Image and Seamantle scrolls you want. Serpentine bloodline is good, but it's not better than an Instinctual warrior with beast totems who can also cast from scrolls.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by jsaving:

mage-only buffs like mirror image.

Just read a scroll. If you're using magic for defense, you want to be able to read scrolls anyway to cast seamantle and Bloodrager spellcasting doesn't go that high.

Personally, I don't like the Bloodrager class and consider their spellcasting to be a worthless meme. You can drink a potion for archmage armor and Nenio will scribe you all the Shield and Mirror Image and Seamantle scrolls you want. Serpentine bloodline is good, but it's not better than an Instinctual warrior with beast totems who can also cast from scrolls.

EXACTLY! And Magus sells you the entire "magical warrior" theme much better. Want to be even better at combat(or emulate a magical savage)? Play Kensei(Sword Saint) and focus him into Greataxes, Earth Breakers(or a Scythe for more of a Dervish theme) etc. There, you have your "Bloodrager". The only Rager worth anything is Primalist(and that one's kinda OP tbh) and MetaRager(that one's n / a without Tweaks, sadly). Greenrager could be good if it had a better selection of summons(really, think about a Smilodon with all those buffs).

Currently? mehcity imo.

[ptirodaktill]

When everyone has true sight, the value of mirror image, blur and displacement is close to zero. Personaly i didn`t bothered with scrolls at all cause it required to deal with laggy godawfull UI >_>.
Rage characters underperform for a bunch of reasons.
1) Early game you can cast Rage spell that does exactly the same as barbarian rage and don`t stack with it. Also runnin out of Rage after every encounter just suck.
2)Midgame a melee party would find a way to squish in Scald one way or another, and Rage don`t stack with Scald song.
3)Late game you need some extra AB juice to hit these pescky demons and w/o touch AB or some smite`s you simply can`t compete/ Heck, even a buffed Mutated warrior run around with 70AB w/o domain power. Its simply not enough to deliver dmg against 93AC stuff

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

When everyone has true sight, the value of mirror image, blur and displacement is close to zero. Personaly i didn`t bothered with scrolls at all cause it required to deal with laggy godawfull UI >_>.
Rage characters underperform for a bunch of reasons.
1) Early game you can cast Rage spell that does exactly the same as barbarian rage and don`t stack with it. Also runnin out of Rage after every encounter just suck.
2)Midgame a melee party would find a way to squish in Scald one way or another, and Rage don`t stack with Scald song.
3)Late game you need some extra AB juice to hit these pescky demons and w/o touch AB or some smite`s you simply can`t compete/ Heck, even a buffed Mutated warrior run around with 70AB w/o domain power. Its simply not enough to deliver dmg against 93AC stuff

1. Yeah, but also Limitless Rage(should be called Endless Rage tbh, just sounds much better).

2. Are you sure they don't stack? Try them out! ;) (=yet another reason why Barb is better)

3. 93 AC? What's this? Core Vavakia Vanguard?