Owlcat needs to cut the fat from their next game

[them4pples]

The main issue for both kingmaker and wotr for me was that the games just drag tf on. They're super fun, but they just keep going with no end in sight. It diminishes the enjoyment that was once there and you feel like rushing through the last parts of the game just to get it over with. Owlcat needs to find where the peak of the gameplay is and then resolve it quickly after.

They also need to remove all the busy work stuff that is there just to inflate steam play times so it sits higher in people's profiles (don't know if this is a thing, but it honestly feels like it lol). My first playthrough of wotr was over 200 freaking hours and I ended up skipping ♥♥♥♥ just to finish the game. I didn't even finish kingmaker because of how boring it got.

With a new Owlcat game on the horizon, I really hope they remove the gristle from their steak, but leave a bit for ppl that enjoy it.

[Bloodartist]

Автор сообщения: them4pples

The main issue for both kingmaker and wotr for me was that the games just drag tf on. They're super fun, but they just keep going with no end in sight. It diminishes the enjoyment that was once there and you feel like rushing through the last parts of the game just to get it over with. Owlcat needs to find where the peak of the gameplay is and then resolve it quickly after.

They also need to remove all the busy work stuff that is there just to inflate steam play times so it sits higher in people's profiles (don't know if this is a thing, but it honestly feels like it lol). My first playthrough of wotr was over 200 freaking hours and I ended up skipping ♥♥♥♥ just to finish the game. I didn't even finish kingmaker because of how boring it got.

With a new Owlcat game on the horizon, I really hope they remove the gristle from their steak, but leave a bit for ppl that enjoy it.

While I have absolutely love the things my character can do in-character in these games, such as the possibility of the deepest delve into evil than any other RPG Ive played;

I agree that these games tend to be very combat heavy and do drag on after a while. But if its based on xp-progression I guess they must do that, sorta. It would require a great deal of balancing to change the progression.

[seeker1]

I can say this: I sure would like them to terminate bugs with extreme prejudice.

Those can be trimmed and cut out with a photon torpedo.

[jutschi78]

Автор сообщения: Lucky

If i want short/braindead story with casual gameplay and braindead combos i would play divinity instead of this beatiful game. So no, devs will not cut any "fat" from the game

Well, a game can be shorter and have a good story and complex gameplay, Tyranny is a good example. While i really love both pathfinder games, there some timeeaters with less fun or boredom. Running around and do meaningless sidequests (ok, most sidequests in this game outside the crusade are quite good), the crusade itself (it is not totally bad, just meh), random and trashfights.

Longer is not always better.

[Cruddy]

I agree, as is both Pathfinder games are extremely bloated between tons of random encounters that serve only to waste resources and time and the management mini-games, WotR is particularly bad in this regard, no, it's not fun getting travel interupted by a group of bandits I can squash like bugs. IF there is random encounters they should be varied and dare I say "random", have joke encounters, easter eggs or unique scenes.

[Tokala]

Автор сообщения: Cruddy horse

I agree, as is both Pathfinder games are extremely bloated between tons of random encounters that serve only to waste resources and time and the management mini-games, WotR is particularly bad in this regard, no, it's not fun getting travel interupted by a group of bandits I can squash like bugs. IF there is random encounters they should be varied and dare I say "random", have joke encounters, easter eggs or unique scenes.

That`s true.

[Migromul]

Автор сообщения: them4pples

Автор сообщения: jonoliveira12

There being a lot to do, is a good thing. If anything, what they need to remove, is supply and "camp every 2 minutes" mechanics, that make moving in the word map a slog. Corruption is just another take on Supplies, forcing you to go back home often.

having a lot of stuff to do is good, i agree, but it shouldn't overstay it's welcome. those suggestions you mentioned are pretty good as well though.

Автор сообщения: Dryad

Are you playing in real time with pause or turn-based? It goes much faster in the former to the extent that none of the playthroughs I've done have gone over 90 hours. And that's on Core, completing every possible quest and finishing the crusade.

my first playthrough was on core with a mix of turn based and rtwp. mostly rtwp since i enjoy that more. now that i think about it, i did restart my first playthrough, so my first full game complete was probably around 150 hours. i still rushed at the end though, because it just ended up getting boring. kingmaker and wotr just overstay their welcome a bit too much.

I tried realtime. And it got so chaotic, that I just gave up to try it again, if I don't know, that I kill them all in one shot. At the beginning, you can somewhat keep your overview. But later I juast have no chance in that regard... And I play normal.
Anyway, I don't realy mind the combat in turn-based mode, bacause I normally enjoy it.

This corruption-mechanic is a bit annoying, however. I thnk, that shelters (in outposts) not only should stop the corruption, but clean it completely. And you should be able to build a shelter on every outpost that has a tavern, regardless of the size. (just make the tavern a requirement for the shelter, not the size of the outpost...) I'm not in for deleting the corruption-mechanic completely, however. You still have the teleport-spell, to shorten adventure-travels. (But it seems, you only can build a few teleport-circles, lesser than one hand has fingers? Because you're not able to build more fortified outposts...)

[Wither]

With world map it will take FOREVER to travel somewhere. I'd say remove world map traveling animation and just roll once or twice to decide whether random encounter should occur.

[gurugeorge]

Horses for courses really, it depends on how immersed you are in your character, the story, etc., if you're really into it you don't want it to end, and you can't get enough of the detail and busywork. If you're a bit iffy about the playthrough, then it definitely gets tedious about 3/4 of the way through - and you're right that the temptation to blitz through it comes up then.

At least that's what I found. I've been on both sides of it, with both games, and a really good playthrough where you're wringing the juice out of every moment, it's great to have tons of content.

I think what the real problem is, is that there are some minigames and gameplay elements, even story beats, that don't appeal to everyone (I'm not that fond of the puzzle element myself), and one's attention might drift at that point. And if you lose that deep immersion because of some aspect of the game that's just annoyed you, sometimes you can't get it back again, so the rest of the game starts to feel like a chore that you just want to get over with.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

My biggest issu with the game is the compleet lack of respect for spellcasters.
Play a dumb brute with a big metal stick.
Slaughter your way throught countless armies.
Try to play a generalist wizard.
Everything and there mother is immune to your spells.

I am trying to play through the game again but early game fights are so damm boring.
Just buff up and hope you hit.

[fulf]

I've begun to wonder whether Owlcat has a cursed monkey paw in their possession

The peak of this game for me was Act 4 where a lot of that fat felt subdued or gone entirely- fewer filler fights, better-constructed quests with an actual sense of intrigue, a party strong enough to stand a chance against the ridiculous saves and spell resistances of many enemies, no crusade BS or long world-map travel times to worry about- but even then, they had to weasel in a superfluous gimmick that's more annoyance than anything else with the camera-rotation crap

It's like the game was acknowledging "yeah, this is getting old..." but I just wish the rest of the game could be a bit more like that. I shelved the game for a few months before even getting that far- which adds to the frustration

I'm probably more optimistic than I should be for their next game, solely because it's being built turn-based from the ground up. That alone I'm hoping will get them to consider which fights- even which individual enemies- are absolutely necessary to include, because the standard RTwP approach to designing encounters is just 'throw a bunch of enemies in a space so the player isn't bored,' which... is boring.

[AdahnGorion]

Автор сообщения: Radene

The only thing I really do wish they'd reduce is the amount of random encounters and loading screens.

Like, switching from "decree" to "movement" maps, why is there a loading screen between the two? That could definitely be optimized.

I agree with the Swiss one here.

Well.. and the other most important thing about their future game (ie their next WH4k game) is that Nenio is in it as well, no matter how they have to cork around that ^^

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2616683078

But on a serious note
Anyway.. Some of us prefer long immersive games, 25-30 hours would not suit a grand cRPG in my opinion, but ofc you can find some examples.
The biggest issue is, if the quality of the story telling or player agency becomes to long, just because they wanna prolong the "game lenght" but I don´t think it is a problem in this game tbh, nor Kingmaker or most other cRPG´s for that matter.

[Aliceskysareblue]

this is a crpg based on tabletop, thats the type of games they make

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Personally I enjoy game length as it stands. I agree on the resting point though I think corruption is not balanced properly and really its just a nuiscence thus I use Toybox to turn it off just because its that unbalanced.
Other then that I really don't have anything wrong with the game pacing wise except with regards to when you get your mythic levels I'd prefer that you didn't hit mythic ten when the game is functionally almost over.
Speaking of mythics the Late Game paths need to be completely reworked as it stands there really isn't much reason to take any of them as they aren't fleshed out enough in my opinion and need some serious tweaking in terms of balance as they fall short of the other paths in the game, they have potential but due to them being unlocked so late in the game when you've pretty much already committed to a given build and you've invested a good amount of time into playing your chosen path in addition to the fact that by the time you can chose any of them the game is nearly over makes them how shall I put this redundant a fact made even worse by their balancing which makes them weaker then other paths and the fact they lack content makes this even worse, I've zero incentive to play Legend because of how late in the game it becomes an option also its basically rejected by me due to it being suggested by Iomedae which considering the fact the idea was to be free of ANY outside meddling having the path be suggested by a goddess whom I despise for a number of reasons basically dooms the path to never being chosen by me even if it was actually worth a damn but it isn't in my opinion.
Anyway the best improvements that can be made in my opinion for the game is to overhaul the late game paths, add some more flavor for the normal paths like additional path exclusive companions as Azata and Lich are far more enjoyable then other mythics thanks to that specifically in addition to having better writing then most and there are a number of NPCs like Targonna for example that would make solid choices for the non-late game paths I also think the late game mythics should have exclusive companions as well, also Nurah should be a follower in my opinion I'll keep beating that drum until it happens and until it happens I'll keep using Merc Nurah in all my runs. Also I'd prefer if they didn't nerf paths that were solid on release like Lich and Azata I mean seriously those two were perfectly fine and they gave them nerfs that weren't needed. Other then these things I find the game a joy to play

[Lou the Lou]

I'd rather have a long game that I can leave and come back to than something I spend $60 on and put down a month later, never to be touched again.

And "the fat" is what makes these games great. It's not just Owlcat games. It's all cRPGs. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter, Divinity - they all have tons of "extra, pointless" stuff for you to run around and waste time on, all the way up to the end.

I can understand the, "I just spent 200 hours on this game, I'm really close to the end, and I just want it to be over." In fact, this isn't exclusive to games. The Lord of the Rings movies certainly lingered longer than they needed to - if your goal was to simply finish the movie. These kinds of games, and those movies, choose to take their time and explore what there is to be explored. They're not concerned about when the end comes. It will come. In the meantime, they're in no rush.

Which is fine by me.

[~ Fabulous ~]

but the fat is the reason I like this game