Choosing DEX vs STR based two handed build

[Razer]

So I'd like to hear some pros and cons of each. Not specifically looking to min max so not looking for "X is terrible or Y is the best ever". Just looking for what the advantages are of both and perhaps also what the limitations of both are when you're building a two handed character. I know both are possible as I've built them before. Of course Dex relies on finesse wielding, but they can be two handed as well.

[Schlumpsha]

With a strength based two handed build you have an early packmule. And a character type not really found amongst the companions. Well, there's Sosiel's brother using a falchion. But he become available very late.

Regill is already a dexterity based two handed fighter. Even if his two handed weapon counts as a double weapon. If you don't mind having a second character doing similar things, or don't plan using him on your party, might just as well go with that idea.

[MjKorz]

Depends on what kind of character you want to play.

1. If your intent is to play a pure second row damage dealer who attacks enemies from behind the back of his tank(s) via reach weapons and does not need any defenses, then strength is optimal.

2. If your intent is to actually be the tank with a 2h weapon who can tank all content in the game on any difficulty, then dexterity is your only real choice, because the Inevitable Excess DLC pushed the tank AC requirement to 136 (unfair charging Inevitable Darkness has 116 attack bonus), so you will need every source of AC in the book including maxed out dexterity.

[Razer]

Ok thanks so far. I should have added that I play on core. And I don't plan to min max my characters for 1 or 2 encounters specifically.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Razer:

Ok thanks so far. I should have added that I play on core. And I don't plan to min max my characters for 1 or 2 encounters specifically.

Damage number go up - strength.

AC number go up - dexterity.

Simple as.

[Conquista]

str scales better with size increasing buffs, but dex offers more defense

for qol, str offers more carrying capacity, but dex affects more skills (athletic vs trickery, stealth, mobility)

str needs less feats to work for offense, but with dex you can skip some feats for defense

[Raikon]

It depends on what you are playing. This conversation was started in the Sword Saint thread, but the answer there was to go Intelligence.

I don't own inevitable excess, so I cant speak for that DLC.

I would say Dex is superior to stregnth though. Dex does more for your character and gameplay.

Dex gets:
Trickery
Stealth
Mobility
AC
Attack
Damage
Iniatitive
Reflex save

Stregnth gets
Athetletics
Damage
Attack

[Raikon]

Some classes/mythic combinations are immune to the drawbacks.

A great example is an Azata/ Vivisectionist, or similiarly an Azata/Mutation warrior.

In either case you can go Strgnth for both without practically any drawbacks.

[Aria Athena]

I'm assuming by Two-Handed you don't mean double weapons. In my opinion the question is "do you want to play with Elven Curve Blade and take 3 levels rogue, or go STR?"

Damage with Strength scales way better, but with Dex you have the advantage of not having to worry about Str at all, so you have a lot of leeway for something like a Magus or an Eldritch Scoundrel. I think even on Core many classes will have trouble getting decent AC for most of the game to tank properly while focusing on Str.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

I'm assuming by Two-Handed you don't mean double weapons. In my opinion the question is "do you want to play with Elven Curve Blade and take 3 levels rogue, or go STR?"

Damage with Strength scales way better, but with Dex you have the advantage of not having to worry about Str at all, so you have a lot of leeway for something like a Magus or an Eldritch Scoundrel. I think even on Core many classes will have trouble getting decent AC for most of the game to tank properly while focusing on Str.

You can, if you want, use a non finesse weapon as well if you take fighter weapon training to do so. But Elven Curve Blade is one of the easy choices yes.

How does STR scale better than DEX? That's only true if you use Fencing/Slashing Grace, which I would not suggest for a two handed weapon. Better off using Finesse Training or Mythic Weapon Finesse to get the full bonus to dmg.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Razer:

How does STR scale better than DEX? That's only true if you use Fencing/Slashing Grace, which I would not suggest for a two handed weapon. Better off using Finesse Training or Mythic Weapon Finesse to get the full bonus to dmg.

For one it's easier to increase Str and it goes in hand with transmutations like Enlarge or Legendary, which you probably want with a 2-hander and they will hinder your accuracy with a Dex build. Power Attack is 1.5x for 2-handers, while Piranha Bite isn't. If you are interested in the fighter subclass, I believe that one only works with Str. With the mythic feat, Vital Strike now also multiplies the str bonus.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by Razer:

How does STR scale better than DEX? That's only true if you use Fencing/Slashing Grace, which I would not suggest for a two handed weapon. Better off using Finesse Training or Mythic Weapon Finesse to get the full bonus to dmg.

For one it's easier to increase Str and it goes in hand with transmutations like Enlarge or Legendary, which you probably want with a 2-hander and they will hinder your accuracy with a Dex build. Power Attack is 1.5x for 2-handers, while Piranha Bite isn't. If you are interested in the fighter subclass, I believe that one only works with Str. With the mythic feat, Vital Strike now also multiplies the str bonus.

I would personally put STR at 13 for hte carry weight and get PA over Piranha Strike even when going DEX.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Razer:

I would personally put STR at 13 for hte carry weight and get PA over Piranha Strike even when going DEX.

Yeah, that makes sense. Now I'm questioning the reasons behind the existence of Piranha Bite. What even is the point?

[Razer]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by Razer:

I would personally put STR at 13 for hte carry weight and get PA over Piranha Strike even when going DEX.

Yeah, that makes sense. Now I'm questioning the reasons behind the existence of Piranha Bite. What even is the point?

Dual wielding or sword and board? PA has an edge for two handing, but is otherwise similar to Piranha Strike. So if you want to forego STR entirely and dual wield you can use PS for a dmg boost. I just don't like lowering my STR below 11. Otherwise you're already encumbered when wearing a frikking belt.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Razer:

I just don't like lowering my STR below 11.

Try a 5 STR Kitsune dexterity based MutationWarrior19/Monk1 or ScaledFist1.

[jsaving]

Originally posted by Razer:

How does STR scale better than DEX? That's only true if you use Fencing/Slashing Grace, which I would not suggest for a two handed weapon. Better off using Finesse Training or Mythic Weapon Finesse to get the full bonus to dmg.

There are many reasons why DEX-based characters who find a way to get DEX-to-damage still dish out less damage than STR-based characters. The game provides more ways to boost STR than DEX, including but not limited to legendary proportions. Also, the game's highest-damage weapons aren't finessable. You can still dish out high damage as a DEX-based character, but you do have to accept losing best-in-class DPS when going DEX-based.

Whether that's a worthwhile trade depends on your circumstances. If you're trying to handle unfair or (especially) brutal unfair endgame content, I haven't found a way on a STR-based character to get AC where it needs to be. But 95% of players don't have to worry about building for unfair or brutal unfair because they aren't going to be playing on those difficulty levels anyway. And for them, the extra DPS of a strength-based character still leaves you with enough AC to handle the game's content.