Shatter Defences question

[Tao314zdin]

Is it still bugged and applies right away (before any hit was land in the round)?

If so, what is the most reliable way to apply shaken with minimal failure chance?

[Ballpoint Man]

I'm afraid I dont know about any bug for shatter defences (not saying there isnt one, just dont know about it).

I think the two most common reliable ways to apply shaken are the Bard song Dirge of Doom and the spell Frightful Aspect (level 8 spell though, so it wont be immediately available).

Neither of those options require any kind of save to inflict shaken.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Ballpoint Man:

I'm afraid I dont know about any bug for shatter defences (not saying there isnt one, just dont know about it).

I think the two most common reliable ways to apply shaken are the Bard song Dirge of Doom and the spell Frightful Aspect (level 8 spell though, so it wont be immediately available).

Neither of those options require any kind of save to inflict shaken.

Ok, thanks!

I recall it was a bug that allowed to target flat-footed defense right away (instead of after landing at least 1 hit as description says). Guess I will need to test it to see.

[Conquista]

i think it still works like that in wotr, because i remember tabletop tweaks mod to change that to only apply after a hit, but i could be wrong

[Mravenrocks]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Originally posted by Ballpoint Man:

I'm afraid I dont know about any bug for shatter defences (not saying there isnt one, just dont know about it).

I think the two most common reliable ways to apply shaken are the Bard song Dirge of Doom and the spell Frightful Aspect (level 8 spell though, so it wont be immediately available).

Neither of those options require any kind of save to inflict shaken.

Ok, thanks!

I recall it was a bug that allowed to target flat-footed defense right away (instead of after landing at least 1 hit as description says). Guess I will need to test it to see.

That isn't a bug, the games aren't a 100% copy of the tabletop and Owlcat's version of Shattered Defenses works like that on purpose.

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

That isn't a bug, the games aren't a 100% copy of the tabletop and Owlcat's version of Shattered Defenses works like that on purpose.

At a minimum, it's inconsistent with the in game description which is copy/pasted from tabletop. Unless someone can point to an official comment on the topic from an Owlcat, there's no way to know for certain if it's intended, a bug they deemed unworthy of fixing, or an actual bug.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Ok, thanks!

I recall it was a bug that allowed to target flat-footed defense right away (instead of after landing at least 1 hit as description says). Guess I will need to test it to see.

That isn't a bug, the games aren't a 100% copy of the tabletop and Owlcat's version of Shattered Defenses works like that on purpose.

As the other person said - it is not working according to its own description. So it is either a bug or devs are not able to handle a plain text properly.

I simply took the liberty to assume the better about the devs.

[godbossman]

The spell Fear's result on a failed save leaves them shaken instead. That's if they make the save.

The Hex Evil Eye can apply -2 Saves (or AC or Att), which becomes -4 in a few levels, and a save against it just means it only applies for one round. so pick the effect you're after.

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

Dazzling Display + Shatter Defense with high persuasion aka intimitation applies it. I think you can get Shatter Defense with lvl 9. If you play Trickster and take Persuasion 1 as mythic trick, it applies automatically on every enemy that does not success in a save roll or is immune. With in combination of Thug, it lasts longer and enemies even get frightened and run away.

I played recently a character with that and while it was active, enemies were flat footed as it should be.

But it's better to play with Greater Invis. If they don't succeed in a perception roll, you can just kill them off while they stand there and do nothing. Even True Seeing does not work properly on it. You can get a few strikes in, until they react to you. See Invis is completely useless against it, they never see you.

[Yannir]

Originally posted by Baldurs_Gate_2:

Dazzling Display + Shatter Defense with high persuasion aka intimitation applies it. I think you can get Shatter Defense with lvl 9. If you play Trickster and take Persuasion 1 as mythic trick, it applies automatically on every enemy that does not success in a save roll or is immune. With in combination of Thug, it lasts longer and enemies even get frightened and run away.

I played recently a character with that and while it was active, enemies were flat footed as it should be.

But it's better to play with Greater Invis. If they don't succeed in a perception roll, you can just kill them off while they stand there and do nothing. Even True Seeing does not work properly on it. You can get a few strikes in, until they react to you. See Invis is completely useless against it, they never see you.

You need +6 BAB for Shatter Defenses so level 7 for high BAB classes. Also needs a Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display to qualify.

BAB gets applied at the end of leveling so even if you technically get +6 BAB at level 6, you can only pick SD at level 7 because you don't qualify for it until you've finished the process at level 6.

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Yannir:

BAB gets applied at the end of leveling so even if you technically get +6 BAB at level 6, you can only pick SD at level 7 because you don't qualify for it until you've finished the process at level 6.

No.

Counter example: Fighter 6 can select Shatter Defenses at level 6.

[Tao314zdin]

Hmm, good point about fear thanks!

What's up with the great invisibility though? It is bugged? Like true seeing supposed to counter it, or not?

[Yannir]

Originally posted by forkofspite:

Originally posted by Yannir:

BAB gets applied at the end of leveling so even if you technically get +6 BAB at level 6, you can only pick SD at level 7 because you don't qualify for it until you've finished the process at level 6.

No.

Counter example: Fighter 6 can select Shatter Defenses at level 6.

I'm just talking out of my arse, apparently. :D

[Mravenrocks]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Hmm, good point about fear thanks!

What's up with the great invisibility though? It is bugged? Like true seeing supposed to counter it, or not?

Ever since 2 patches ago greater invisibility is bugged and true seeing doesn't do anything against it. You need to use glitterdust, echolocation or thoughsense.
There's another invisibility bug, enemies that start combat while invisible have permanent invisibility and again you need to use those 3 spells and cannot see them with true seeing.

Supposedly this is fixed in their internal new version but we don't know when it's coming out.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Hmm, good point about fear thanks!

What's up with the great invisibility though? It is bugged? Like true seeing supposed to counter it, or not?

Ever since 2 patches ago greater invisibility is bugged and true seeing doesn't do anything against it. You need to use glitterdust, echolocation or thoughsense.
There's another invisibility bug, enemies that start combat while invisible have permanent invisibility and again you need to use those 3 spells and cannot see them with true seeing.

Supposedly this is fixed in their internal new version but we don't know when it's coming out.

^This. True sight does jack all of nothing

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Yannir:

I'm just talking out of my arse, apparently. :D

Pretty sure there's a cartoon episode focused on that.

However, there is something related to your initial point: You must already meet all prerequisites when you select the class level. If a prestige class has a prereq of 4 ranks in Stealth (for example), the earliest that prestige class can be selected is level 5.

As to the OP:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

what is the most reliable way to apply shaken with minimal failure chance?

Probably the Frightful Aspect spell, but that's fairly high level (level 7 or 8, I think).