Spells always missing. How why

[asnjas19]

I read my combat log and my spell need to hit, pass spell resistance and then pass DC check lol. 3 different checks in order to hit.

DC is ridiculous. Ppl have saves of like 12-15 all the time. My listed DC for the spells I'm casting is 16, 17, 18.

Correctly me if I'm wrong. that means the enemy roll a 20d and add that to their save and if that result is higher than my DC, 16-18, then they save.

Example, If their save is say 13 and my DC is say 16 then with a 20d they only need to roll a 4 or better in order to save??

How is this fair assuming it correct? 3/20? 15% chance to land, right?

My ember is a joke as the necromancy line of debuff never land. The spells just never land and its frustrating and pointless. This type of debuff mage play is ineffective.

ATM she has both spell specialist talent that add 1 to DC for necromancy. She has persistent metamagic applied to the necro spell I'm using. She has that mystic path talent that further increase the spell specialist DC talent. 4 separate talents just for necromancy spells and they still can't land For sht. 15%.

I know they aren't landing because after every cast I check the log just for her cast.

And!!! I play on easy level with slightly lowered enemy Stat.

And if you say we'll don't cast fortitude DC checks on people with high fortitude save. Ok but they all have high fort save lol. Most bad guy don't even 1 out of the 3 as low. I've seen a few with a stand out weakness to reflex. But that's few as most have pretty equal save to all 3.

[MjKorz]

1. Don't bother with DC casting unless you go all in.
2. Focus on a single school of magic and maximize the spell DCs for that single school.
3. Learn how Expanded Arsenal works (just google it, there are countless posts on reddit and even these forums).
4. Learn what Touch of Glory does (and use it on Charisma casters like Ember).
5. Compile a list of items granting DC bonuses for your school of choice (requires meta knowledge).
6. Use saving throw debuffs that do not allow a save to negate the debuff (Witch+Shaman stacking Evil Eyes, Prediction of Failure, Holy/Profane Hymn, Arbitrament, Fear spell to cause Shaken and many others).

When you understand these things, you will have no problems beating enemy saves even on highest difficulties.

If Nenio can do it, so can your main character:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2803215671

[Soral]

That guys advice above me? It's good if you want to game the system, but not really necessary. Just a basic understanding of Pathfinder will do.

On anything but Core, save-based spells work fine. Just remember to take the relevant feats. You don't need, at all, to "specialize" in a single school of magic. It helps, sure, but you don't really need to. Ember's got some good things to lower enemy DC's, just use those, and as I said, take relevant feats. You don't need meta-knowledge to do well. You just need to not make ass characters.

The game is perfectly beatable and playable with base vanilla characters on anything but Core.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by asnjas19:

Example, If their save is say 13 and my DC is say 16 then with a 20d they only need to roll a 4 or better in order to save??

How is this fair assuming it correct? 3/20? 15% chance to land, right?

Well you see what their other saves are.
Use spells that attack lowest save. At least early game when you do not have yet what MjKorz recommends.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

4. Learn what Touch of Glory does (and use it on Charisma casters like Ember).

What does Touch of Glory do for spells?

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by MjKorz:

4. Learn what Touch of Glory does (and use it on Charisma casters like Ember).

What does Touch of Glory do for spells?

My thoughts indeed. Per tabletop rules, you "touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check."

Charisma-based skills or charisma ability checks. Nothing to do with spells there. Sounds to me more like somebody has been using some extremely liberal rule interpretations at his home game.


But in response to OP: When it comes to offensive spellcasting in WotR, go big or go home. Either pump up your spell DCs and SR penetration, or forget about offensive spellcasting altogether.

There are ways around either of course. Conjuration spells for instance, are unaffected by SR, because create a physical object then attack with that. Touch and ranged touch spells (damaging ones at least) tend not to offer a saving throw of any kind, so DC isn't an issue.

[Immortal Reaver]

Yeah Touch Spells with Sneak Attacks can be 1 hit kills too, just on only 1 target. And way easier to do since Touch AC is low for a lot of enemies.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

But in response to OP: When it comes to offensive spellcasting in WotR, go big or go home. Either pump up your spell DCs and SR penetration, or forget about offensive spellcasting altogether.

There are ways around either of course. Conjuration spells for instance, are unaffected by SR, because create a physical object then attack with that. Touch and ranged touch spells (damaging ones at least) tend not to offer a saving throw of any kind, so DC isn't an issue.

This is the best advice I think. It's go big or go home, but since you can't go big on low levels, you just go Grease instead. Conjuration spells not only tend to bypass spell resist, they also persist.

It will get much better OP, low levels is where most of the struggle is. You need Spell Penetration, Spell Foci, Spell Specialisation, plus if you want to use range touch spells you also need Point Blank and Precise Shot. It's just too much ♥♥♥♥ for level 7 or so.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by MjKorz:

4. Learn what Touch of Glory does (and use it on Charisma casters like Ember).

What does Touch of Glory do for spells?

Despite what its description says, touch of glory gives you flat Charisma bonus, not a bonus to charisma skill/ability checks. For Charisma spellcasters, this results in extra spell DC. It's completely overpowered and makes crushing enemy saves effortless.

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

What does Touch of Glory do for spells?

Despite what its description says, touch of glory gives you flat Charisma bonus, not a bonus to charisma skill/ability checks. For Charisma spellcasters, this results in extra spell DC. It's completely overpowered and makes crushing enemy saves effortless.

Jesus, that's nuts. Owlcat were smoking some seriously strong ♥♥♥♥ when they made that. Now excuse me while I go respec Sosiel...

[erian]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Despite what its description says, touch of glory gives you flat Charisma bonus, not a bonus to charisma skill/ability checks. For Charisma spellcasters, this results in extra spell DC. It's completely overpowered and makes crushing enemy saves effortless.

Jesus, that's nuts. Owlcat were smoking some seriously strong ♥♥♥♥ when they made that. Now excuse me while I go respec Sosiel...

No. Its just some players enjoy using bugs and push this in their posts as normal. Said MjKorz in his list in this topic proposed to use at least 2 bugs:) With magic arsenal and said touch of glory.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by erian:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Jesus, that's nuts. Owlcat were smoking some seriously strong ♥♥♥♥ when they made that. Now excuse me while I go respec Sosiel...

No. Its just some players enjoy using bugs and push this in their posts as normal. Said MjKorz in his list in this topic proposed to use at least 2 bugs:) With magic arsenal and said touch of glory.

Cry as hard as you like, but that's how the game works. In fact, that's how the game worked since Kingmaker where Touch of Glory worked the same, except at half the strength it works at now. You can either accept existing game mechanics or you can gimp yourself and then complain on the forums.

And for the record, I too would like to see Touch of Glory nerfed, because it makes DC casting far too easy with zero investment and completely butchers any semblance of balance between CHA, INT and WIS casters, but I'm not going to pretend like it doesn't exist in the game and hasn't existed since the first game where everyone and their dog used it as well.

[Aria Athena]

If Touch of Glory is bugged, it's not like you have to go out of your way to avoid using it. Just do not pick that single domain you wouldn't pick anyway with that particular class.

[asnjas19]

evil eye has a save throw. my embers evil eye dc is currently 21.

Originally posted by NecroWolf:

That guys advice above me? It's good if you want to game the system, but not really necessary. Just a basic understanding of Pathfinder will do.

On anything but Core, save-based spells work fine. Just remember to take the relevant feats. You don't need, at all, to "specialize" in a single school of magic. It helps, sure, but you don't really need to. Ember's got some good things to lower enemy DC's, just use those, and as I said, take relevant feats. You don't need meta-knowledge to do well. You just need to not make ass characters.

The game is perfectly beatable and playable with base vanilla characters on anything but Core.

im sorry but that is just false and i dont think you read my initial post.
first, my necro debuffing spells miss all the time. ive been using ray of sickening and bestow curse. ray of sickening is persistence metamagic'd. to be fair, i have not went through and counted the misses vs the actual successes as im just going off of eye balling it. but i can tell you she aint landing bestow curse or ray of sickening even 50% of the time.
second, i am taking relevant feats. as i said in my initial post, my ember has spell focus: necro, greater spell focus: necro, spell focus mythic: necro, pesistence meta magic, precise and point blank. im currently lvl 9 and my ember has taken all relevant feats. not exactly an ass character.

i tried pointing out my actual DC's in the post. with a dc of 15-16 vs a save through of 12-13, theres too many ways they can win lol. thats why i was hoping someone count point out some nuance im missing.

since posting, my ember is now lvl 9 with a dc of 21 to those spells. maybe it will improve so long as save throws of 12-13 do not also improve...

[Conquista]

evil eye will hit unless target is immune to mindaffecting effects, the dc roll only extend the duration, which does not really matter because most things should be killed in one round anyway

so if you want to play your ember as a debuffer, just autocast evil eye with her

but ya i agree if you want to be a dc caster and want to succeed most of your spells, better abuse some game mechanics for the sake of your own mental health

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by asnjas19:

evil eye has a save throw. my embers evil eye dc is currently 21.

Unless the target is immune, which is quite likely, Evil Eye will hit for 1 round. Then you autocast Cackle, which is a move action that extends the duration for 1 round each time.