Owlcat Games is a Russian studio.

[Kettlesworth]

Are we going to just gloss over that? Every purchase of one of their games indirectly funds Russia's invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. The developers seem like good people, and they shouldn't suffer for the crimes of their government, but that government is committing crimes. They've blowing apart homes and families and children every day and we're really just going to sit here playing a Russian game and pretend everything is fine?

Oil and gas I can understand, it's needed for everything, but this is a fantasy game.

[Riepah]

Stop trying to rile people up against Russians just because they happen to be Russians. All governments do shady stuff, some more, some less, but holding entire populations accountable for decisions a few politicians made without asking the crowd first is frankly terrible.

[Trolleur_Durden]

There's shady stuff and there's a very select club of countries who have committed genocide, so maybe relativism isn't a very relevant argument here. And no one here is holding Russians accountable for anything, only those who are supporting Putin's government, one way or another. Russians who aren't living in Russia and aren't paying taxes to Russia are completely blameless.

[aclyte]

Well, as a Russian citizen I'll tell you the problem of this "Ru/Ukr war cancel culture".

When the EU/US arrested oligarch's yachts and mansions all around the world Russian citizens were very happy because it's money stolen from them. I think no one will object to spending all this money to rebuild Ukraine when the war will over and Putin will get his voyage to Gaaga.

But when Visa/Mastercard stop serving their cards outside of Russia, they were not happy and just thought "damn western countries".

It's easy to chose which action helps to build anti-war movement in Russia and which don't. Same situation with this "boycott". If you leave a couple of dozens of IT developers without a job it will not help to stop the war but creates a bit more angry Russian citizens without money, knowing that it's the "west" who takes their money.

Also, Owlcat games is not a Russian company - their office is in Cyprus. As a result, the only money Russia will get from them is a small Income tax from their workers in Moscow. It's nothing compared to what the EU gives to Russia in exchange for oil/gas.

[Radene]

Escrito originalmente por aclyte:

Well, as a Russian citizen I'll tell you the problem of this "Ru/Ukr war cancel culture".

When the EU/US arrested oligarch's yachts and mansions all around the world Russian citizens were very happy because it's money stolen from them. I think no one will object to spending all this money to rebuild Ukraine when the war will over and Putin will get his voyage to Gaaga.

But when Visa/Mastercard stop serving their cards outside of Russia, they were not happy and just thought "damn western countries".

It's easy to chose which action helps to build anti-war movement in Russia and which don't. Same situation with this "boycott". If you leave a couple of dozens of IT developers without a job it will not help to stop the war but creates a bit more angry Russian citizens without money, knowing that it's the "west" who takes their money.

Also, Owlcat games is not a Russian company - their office is in Cyprus. As a result, the only money Russia will get from them is a small Income tax from their workers in Moscow. It's nothing compared to what the EU gives to Russia in exchange for oil/gas.

In the end, a game like this, it's giving something good to the world. To suggest that people should be barred from creating, telling stories, and bringing entertainment and emotions to us simply because of the colour of their passport; or that we should ignore them on such grounds...that's beyond idiotic.

[Master Spark]

You will hate who you were told to hate and you will be happy feel virtuous.

[Alchimist]

Понабежали долбоёбы

[Left-Hand Path]

Escrito originalmente por seeker1:

MHO: I was against the Russian invasion of Ukraine from the start. So was most of the world. BTW, just because India and China remained quasi-neutral doesn't mean everyone who lived there supported the invasion.

I think OG is mostly operating out of Cyprus but they still have offices in Moscow. I don't see them taking a position on the war, and I can't see why game developers should. I also really don't see any reason why supporting them supports the Russian war effort, unless you're going to argue Russian soldiers are using their games as a sim - which they're not.

There are sanctions on the Russian economy. The only way they've talked about being affected is because this breaks their relationship with UPS, they've had difficulty shipping out physical rewards.

Whatevs. I am not going to argue about the war; it's off topic; the topic of whether OG should be boycotted over it - my position is no. Nor do I feel a need for them to take a stance on it on their website. They are game developers. Not oil barons, arms manufacturers, bankers, etc. It's not like taking a stance would really affect anything.

The only thing it would affect is the employment status of OC`s workers, from employed to unemployed. I don´t know how someone loosing their job helps anyone.

Even if OC had to pay corporate tax, it would be so miniscule that it doens´t matter anyway.

Ignoring regional pricing for a sec: A sold copy of WotR isn´t 50 €, valve takes a 30 % cut.
This means only 35 € are going to the publisher OR OC.

We don´t know about the publishing contract, so noone know how much of a sale ultimatly lands in OC`s pocket.

Then there are running costs:
The Unity license alone costs 4k / month for an enterprise. They have to pay salaries, energy, rent etc.

Furthermore, people aren´t even paying any publisher directly, they pay valve.

So maybe OP should pedition valve to withhold the money. /s

Escrito originalmente por aclyte:

Well, as a Russian citizen I'll tell you the problem of this "Ru/Ukr war cancel culture".

It's easy to chose which action helps to build anti-war movement in Russia and which don't. Same situation with this "boycott". If you leave a couple of dozens of IT developers without a job it will not help to stop the war but creates a bit more angry Russian citizens without money, knowing that it's the "west" who takes their money.

This is quite often the case with this kind of sanctions/boycotts: Usually they strenghten the regime not weaken it.

[Riepah]

Escrito originalmente por Trolleur_Durden:

There's shady stuff and there's a very select club of countries who have committed genocide, so maybe relativism isn't a very relevant argument here. And no one here is holding Russians accountable for anything, only those who are supporting Putin's government, one way or another. Russians who aren't living in Russia and aren't paying taxes to Russia are completely blameless.

Calling what is happening in the Ukraine "genocide" is a little far-fetched. The word for it is "war". War was never pretty and always cost lots of lives, but not every war is a genocide. Suggesting that being a taxpayer is enough to keep you from being "blameless" is... rich. Your name, however, is rather fitting, I suppose.

[Wither]

You are assuming that every Russian support Putin.
Ever be in military? They DON'T ask your opinion.
Beside, Europe still drinking Russian oil and gas even now. This is the real problem. Tell them to stop it, good luck with that, and you will cut out Putin's life line.

[Wither]

Escrito originalmente por Riepah:

Escrito originalmente por Trolleur_Durden:

There's shady stuff and there's a very select club of countries who have committed genocide, so maybe relativism isn't a very relevant argument here. And no one here is holding Russians accountable for anything, only those who are supporting Putin's government, one way or another. Russians who aren't living in Russia and aren't paying taxes to Russia are completely blameless.

Calling what is happening in the Ukraine "genocide" is a little far-fetched. The word for it is "war". War was never pretty and always cost lots of lives, but not every war is a genocide. Suggesting that being a taxpayer is enough to keep you from being "blameless" is... rich. Your name, however, is rather fitting, I suppose.

Until you discover what they did to people they shipped out from Ukraine. It's Chechnya all over again.

[Sporic]

Dont care where they are, what they eat, what they worship... Keep the great games coming

[Riepah]

Escrito originalmente por Wither:

Until you discover what they did to people they shipped out from Ukraine. It's Chechnya all over again.

If you have this irrefutable proof of genocide I have somehow missed, go ahead and show it to the relevant authorities and NGOs so we can all learn the truth.

[Mindeveler]

Escrito originalmente por aclyte:

It's easy to chose which action helps to build anti-war movement in Russia and which don't.

Sort of, although I'm afraid it's one-sided.
When sanctions hurt regular people, it might make them more aggressive towards the west but usually not the other way around.
Because most people here perceive wisdom, tolerance, adequacy as weakness. If the west imposes sanctions - bad west, more reasons to unite around our supreme leader. If the west doesn't impose sanctions - weak west, they just don't have the guts, lol, Putin best leader, mnogo hodov ochka.
Idk what can possibly make anti-war movement stronger here when even mothers who receive their kids back in coffins still praise Putin because they firmly believe their boys died in a holy crusade against the forces of evil, and not a single thought pops up in their mind that something might be wrong.

That said, I definitely agree that boycotting Owlcats games is an idioticity because it's a drop in the ocean.
Not to mention that those game are very liberal in terms of design (e.g. LGBT representation) which is unusual, to put it mildly, for Russian game dev industry.
To boycott them is to harm some of the very few allies that you might have here.

Escrito originalmente por Wither:

Ever be in military? They DON'T ask your opinion.

Well, I'd rather die than kill innocent people. With a gun in hands pointed at my commanding officer who just gave me a criminal order.
Only weak-minded cowards invade countries just because they were told to.
People's insane obsession with self-preservation at all costs is the cause of the majority of problems throughout the course of history.

[Radene]

Escrito originalmente por Wither:

Escrito originalmente por Riepah:

Calling what is happening in the Ukraine "genocide" is a little far-fetched. The word for it is "war". War was never pretty and always cost lots of lives, but not every war is a genocide. Suggesting that being a taxpayer is enough to keep you from being "blameless" is... rich. Your name, however, is rather fitting, I suppose.

Until you discover what they did to people they shipped out from Ukraine. It's Chechnya all over again.

It's the way of the humans to attempt to destroy what they fear. And in so doing, destroy a lot of other stuff, too.

Lives, homes, hopes and dreams. All gone, sacrificed for the game of thrones a few ambutious and ruthless groups play between themselves. Putin is symptomatic of that, he is not the source of it. A willing player, perhaps, but he is not playing this game alone.

But hey, easier to see the world in black and white, pick a team to root for, and pretend we're better people for it.

In the end, who was "right" will not be decided by us. It will be decided by our grandchildren, who will seek the truth of whatever sort of world we leave to them. We are all just fools, flailing desperately in the dark, to justify all the darkness we're capable of.

(Yeah, I'm on an Azata playthrough).

[Von Herbst]

...Didnt steam block payments to russian devs atm anyways?

Escrito originalmente por Jonwoo89:

Escrito originalmente por MjKorz:

It is very funny to see an American talk about the crimes of someone else's government.

A German saying that is pretty hysterical.

You can say that about pretty much any country TBH.

You sir, absolutly miss the point because it wasnt about beeing an agressor in an war (even here, wrong nation mate), but about beeing sanctioned for beeing an agressor in an war.