Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Kettlesworth May 29, 2022 @ 8:20pm
Owlcat Games is a Russian studio.
Are we going to just gloss over that? Every purchase of one of their games indirectly funds Russia's invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. The developers seem like good people, and they shouldn't suffer for the crimes of their government, but that government is committing crimes. They've blowing apart homes and families and children every day and we're really just going to sit here playing a Russian game and pretend everything is fine?

Oil and gas I can understand, it's needed for everything, but this is a fantasy game.
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Raikon May 29, 2022 @ 8:42pm 
The differences in ideology are generally as such.

If one side doesnt like something they wont play it/watch it/support it.
If one side doesnt like something, they want everyone else to be unable to support it.

Even if Owlcat was a russian company, I would fully support them, if I enjoyed thier content (NOT DLCS, so far).

You should step out of your dillusional world, and think for yourself. The chinese are commiting genecoide and they openly endorse child labor. Are you going to stop eating chinese food?

Some humans are bad. Stop judging everyone else because of a few bad apples. Divorce your marriage to hatred, and live free.
Princess Pilfer May 29, 2022 @ 9:54pm 
A few things.
1: Whataboutism. Don't do it, it's stupid.

2: You realize most chinese food in countries other than china is made by immagrents who are citizens of their respective countries right? Why would I be mad at my neighbor, a US citizen who doesn't support what china is doing, because she shares an ethnicity with the people who are?

3: The phrase is not not 'a few bad apples' it's 'a few bad apples spoil the bunch. You know, because if you let a few bad apples stay in a container with the good apples the bacteria and various critters that are spoiling the few apples will spread to all the others and ruin everything?

4: The China and Russia situations are not comparable, for a huge number of reasons. But also, *yes.* When possible (not as often as I like) I buy things from companies that don't support that kind of thing, and if I can't find one I may well abstain. Ultimately the solution to the issues has to be societal not personal (if we just mass boycot chinese goods without our respective governments doing quite a lot of work to get other deals worked out and set up new manufacturing stuff ect we'd just nuke our own economies for no gain) but condemning someone for wanting to take personal action makes you a misonthropic jackwagon who's actively promoting the harm being done, not 'living free.'



Lastly: At OP. People can't unbuy the game if they've like, gotten out of the tutorial. And it's single player so it's not like people who are playing are indirectly contributing to it's continued success by feeding the playerbase. So as for 'playing,' it literally doesn't do anything.

Buying?: Up to you. They don't appear to support the governments actions (except via taxes) but either way is not exactly a thing you can say if you want to stay in business. It definitely won't make a difference to the russian government if you don't, but I'm not going to blame you for drawing a line ither.
Last edited by Princess Pilfer; May 29, 2022 @ 10:12pm
Raikon May 29, 2022 @ 10:24pm 
Well your paragraph mostly doesnt have anything to do with what I said, despite having basically been a rebuttal to it.

I wasnt using any phrases out, or in context. If you get a bad apple, dont hate all apples. You seem to require further explanation on this so I will expand on it.

The portugese explored south africa, and can into contact with the South African Tribes. The Tribal leaders then convinced the portugese to trade thier goods, for the tribes the Warlords enslaved. Portugese then dumped those slaves onto English controlled colonies. Most colonists didnt want slaves, but had no choice. I dont blame the portugese, English, or Africans. A few bad poeple did this, I blame them.

You shouldnt blanket blame a group of poeple for the actions of a few. That is Racism.
Princess Pilfer May 29, 2022 @ 11:51pm 
'Russians' are not a race.

Literally the reason the phrase 'bad apples' exists to refer to anything except actual apples is *because of that metaphor* so, yes, you were.
Also, because apparently you don't know to read a metaphor:

See, the 'few bad apples' are the people in charge. The 'spoils the bunch' is all of the mostly innocent people who end up supporting the government with their tax money and such wether they want to or not.

IE the 'bad apples' ruin everything, because in this case it's difficult to support 'the bunch' without simultaniously supporting the 'bad apples' and enabling them to continue ruining everything.

It doesn't matter who is and is not to blame, it matters that you cannot currently support russian products without also directly funding the war.

(And, worthy of note for most people, in an actually avoidable way. German people can't just...not have electricity because their government is buying natrual gas from Russia. But you *can* just not buy a game, there's a big difference.)




You'll also note: I literally did not say 'don't buy it.' I said buying it is going to contribute such a small amount of money as to be functionally irrelivant but if that's where OP wants to draw the line more power to them.
Last edited by Princess Pilfer; May 29, 2022 @ 11:54pm
Frey12 May 30, 2022 @ 12:19am 
Originally posted by MjKorz:
It is very funny to see an American talk about the crimes of someone else's government.
ROFL, I am American and you are so right lol.
Kettlesworth May 30, 2022 @ 1:02am 
Yes, if you bought the game you can't refund it, and I don't believe you necessarily should. I would like to be able to support the game developers. They've done good work that they should be rewarded. But, to champion the studio at this time, to be excited for their next projects, to buy the DLCs and optional addons, RIGHT NOW, without any mention of the context going on in the real world is thoughtless bordering on gross. The issue is bigger than just Owlcat Games. There's also the makers of World of Tanks and World of Warships who have declared their no longer making games in Russia and Belarus, but . . . I mean clearly they are. They've just done a legal trick so that they can launder the money through sanctions. There's a huge community of "gamers" continuing to buy Russian gaming products, and that sort of behavior is exactly what Russia is relying upon to sustain its economy through sanctions and continue its wars.

As an American, if the world had boycotted all the optional American products they could and reacted with shock and horror to Iraq, the world would probably be a more peaceful and stable place today. Critically, the American government of that time was able to mislead about their intentions and reasons, and convince enough people to go along with it. It didn't help that Iraq was far from a perfect victim, as it had waged its own expansionist wars under the same leadership in the past

Ukraine and Russia is in some ways similar, but profoundly worse, and I don't think Russia's "oooo, we're not invading, look at those silly people saying we'll invade, whoops we tripped and dropped a whole bunch of bombs on their cities" routine has really convinced all that many people.

With the genocidal acts in Bucha and elsewhere, with the forced deportations, with the carving up of the country the annexations, the "separatist states", unlike anything done anywhere else in the world in our lifetimes, it is clear that if Russia gets its way there will be no Ukraine. If you play RPGs like Pathfinder you can read. You can make moral judgements. You can make choices. You can choose to not support developers who are taking the same reasonable but cowardly path most Russians have taken, who allow evil to be done in their name without protest and without personal consequence.
Last edited by Kettlesworth; May 30, 2022 @ 1:04am
Radene May 30, 2022 @ 1:19am 
Originally posted by Kettlesworth:
we're really just going to sit here playing a Russian game and pretend everything is fine?

Yes, I am. What are you going to do about it?
JonWoo May 30, 2022 @ 1:55am 
Originally posted by MjKorz:
It is very funny to see an American talk about the crimes of someone else's government.
A German saying that is pretty hysterical.

You can say that about pretty much any country TBH.
Radene May 30, 2022 @ 2:18am 
Originally posted by Jonwoo89:
Originally posted by MjKorz:
It is very funny to see an American talk about the crimes of someone else's government.
A German saying that is pretty hysterical.

You can say that about pretty much any country TBH.

Yeah. Humans have always been a wretched bunch, regardless of the colors they were born under.
Silion May 30, 2022 @ 2:23am 
Originally posted by Jonwoo89:
Originally posted by MjKorz:
It is very funny to see an American talk about the crimes of someone else's government.
A German saying that is pretty hysterical.

You can say that about pretty much any country TBH.
Can only agree for History is an eager listenener, but a picky writer. :)
Radene May 30, 2022 @ 2:45am 
Originally posted by Silion:
Originally posted by Jonwoo89:
A German saying that is pretty hysterical.

You can say that about pretty much any country TBH.
Can only agree for History is an eager listenener, but a picky writer. :)

History never lies, nor does it cover anything up.

Historians, however...
Gorwe May 30, 2022 @ 3:40am 
So?
RACHMANOVSKI May 30, 2022 @ 4:15am 
As long as they are not openly support or affiliated by the Government there are no reason to refund their games.
Ghost May 30, 2022 @ 4:50am 
the crpg space race has begun
seeker1 May 30, 2022 @ 5:47am 
MHO: I was against the Russian invasion of Ukraine from the start. So was most of the world. BTW, just because India and China remained quasi-neutral doesn't mean everyone who lived there supported the invasion.

I think OG is mostly operating out of Cyprus but they still have offices in Moscow. I don't see them taking a position on the war, and I can't see why game developers should. I also really don't see any reason why supporting them supports the Russian war effort, unless you're going to argue Russian soldiers are using their games as a sim - which they're not.

There are sanctions on the Russian economy. The only way they've talked about being affected is because this breaks their relationship with UPS, they've had difficulty shipping out physical rewards.

Whatevs. I am not going to argue about the war; it's off topic; the topic of whether OG should be boycotted over it - my position is no. Nor do I feel a need for them to take a stance on it on their website. They are game developers. Not oil barons, arms manufacturers, bankers, etc. It's not like taking a stance would really affect anything.
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Date Posted: May 29, 2022 @ 8:20pm
Posts: 35