Spell Combat and Multiple Attacks per Round.

[Sin]

Hello,
I am not certain I am understanding the rules involved with spell combat and multiple attacks per round correctly and am seeking clarification. What I think is ment on the example of an eldritch archer:

As long as I only have 1 attack per round everything is clear. I can cast and still get my full attack for that turn.

When I have two or more attacks per turn (haste, natural progression..) I still only get 1 "free spell" to go with them, so not 3 attacks per turn and each can go with a spell which in turn means: If I attempt to cast 2 spells per turn I will not get my usual auto attacks should there be any left in my pool (if you can even cast 2x per turn under these circumstances.. )
Meaning: Putting a cantrip (acid splash / ray of frost) on auto cast should be a net damage gain until you have more than 1 attack per round, but should turn into a net negative once you got more.

Any help understanding this one better is appreciated.

[HaleMary]

With spell combat and spellstrike you always get an extra attack. So if you have one attack per round, with spell combat and spellstrike you'd get two. Spell combat means you can both cast a spell and attack in the same round. And spellstrike means your spell gets delivered through an arrow (for eldritch archer) - that's in addition to your regular attack. It's the same as you gain more attacks - you'll always get an extra attack with your spell.

[Sin]

Originally posted by HaleMary:

With spell combat and spellstrike you always get an extra attack. So if you have one attack per round, with spell combat and spellstrike you'd get two. Spell combat means you can both cast a spell and attack in the same round. And spellstrike means your spell gets delivered through an arrow (for eldritch archer) - that's in addition to your regular attack. It's the same as you gain more attacks - you'll always get an extra attack with your spell.

That..feels impressively broken. Thank you for the explenation.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Sin:

Originally posted by HaleMary:

With spell combat and spellstrike you always get an extra attack. So if you have one attack per round, with spell combat and spellstrike you'd get two. Spell combat means you can both cast a spell and attack in the same round. And spellstrike means your spell gets delivered through an arrow (for eldritch archer) - that's in addition to your regular attack. It's the same as you gain more attacks - you'll always get an extra attack with your spell.

That..feels impressively broken. Thank you for the explenation.

There is only on sub that is impressively broken from the magus line and since you are using spellcombat and spellstrike it likely isn't the one that is.

[Sin]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Sin:

That..feels impressively broken. Thank you for the explenation.

There is only on sub that is impressively broken from the magus line and since you are using spellcombat and spellstrike it likely isn't the one that is.

I didn't want to comment on power levels across possible builds in this game, just from a general perspective regarding roleplaying games:
Allowing a 2 level dip to basically fling as many spells per turn as they have auto attacks feels .. yikes.. that is ..one hell of a power spike compared to what other systems offer.

[darkholyPL]

Originally posted by Sin:

Allowing a 2 level dip to basically fling as many spells per turn as they have auto attacks feels .. yikes.. that is ..one hell of a power spike compared to what other systems offer.

I'm pretty sure you only get one spell attack per round. The rest are just normal attacks.

[Yannir]

The spell is delivered on your first attack. The rest are just normal attacks. You can't cast multiple spells per round, unless they're Swift/Free actions.

Originally posted by Sin:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

There is only on sub that is impressively broken from the magus line and since you are using spellcombat and spellstrike it likely isn't the one that is.

I didn't want to comment on power levels across possible builds in this game, just from a general perspective regarding roleplaying games:
Allowing a 2 level dip to basically fling as many spells per turn as they have auto attacks feels .. yikes.. that is ..one hell of a power spike compared to what other systems offer.

I also don't think it works with spells from other classes. It needs to be Magus spells specifically. So trying to cast a spell from your Wizard book, even if the same spell would be available as a Magus spell, would result in the spell casting normally rather than through Spell Combat/Strike. Atleast that's how I perceive it should be working.

If you're just content on autocasting Weakening Touch though, that should work as a dip.

[Hex]

You'll do 10 times more damage on just attacking normally with a 2h sword build. You take ES or SS for Dimension Strike and self buffs, not the worthless gimmicky pos. You can do like 400+ dmg per swing with a 2h power attack build against Touch AC, putting any spells to the trashcan.

[mk11]

When using Spell Combat you take a -2 to all your attack rolls. So at some point it is only worth it if the spell you are casting is sufficiently powerful to offset missed hits from some of your multiple attacks.

[HaleMary]

It's decent for archers: basically a free attack (but with -2 to all your attack rolls so only worth it when you already have a good chance to hit). But not so much for melee maguses: 1) You can only use a 1-handed weapon with the other hand free; 2) Casting a spell in melee range gives your opponent an AoO.