DLC: Tides interesting, Pillars annoying

[Silvercourage]

DLC Pro: I enjoyed the tides. They encouraged me to try different parties. Did an all dwarf party because a tide gave me +1 con for each dwarf in the party. Would likely never have done that so enjoyed the carrot to try new things.

DLC Cons: (1) I found Pillars annoying. Sometimes if I stood just outside the doorway I could pepper them down with arrows, but other times there was just no way to reach them other than straight through. Combined with spawn rate/monster immunity to it, it just wasn't fun for me. Maybe I missed something but I never figured out a good strategy for dealing with them and found them annoying. AC 30 even to touch attack, resistances, etc., it seems like they are communicating you're just supposed to run past them? I don't know but wasn't fun for me.

(2) The undertows weren't fun. While the tides encouraged me to try new things and were a fun carrot, the undertows were just all stick. I got one where all spells were random unless you passed a concentration check. So basically, no spells. But the monsters were still the usual challenge and wiped the floor with me. It encouraged me in follow on runs to go Kineticist and other 'no buff' parties in combo with resting being a challenge too.

I enjoyed beneath the stolen lands and the tides and island buffs/carrots, but this one needs to be toned down or given a strong balance pass imo. Stopped playing this evening and can't see going back until at least pillars get modded or nerfed.

Needed to get that off my chest. Thanks and please feel free to drop tips if you think I'm missing something in party build or strategy for pillars or undertows.

[Necessary]

Thank you for the feedback!

[glenn3e]

It made concentration an important stat now, I guess. I got Mythic skill that enabled my Sage Sorcerer to auto success all concentration checks, so its finally got some use?

[Silvercourage]

Originally posted by Necessary:

Thank you for the feedback!

Thank you for the quick response and letting me know I was heard. Makes me feel more positive for the company and the game so thank you!

I'll look forward to reengaging with roguelike mode in the future.

[SentosKarum]

The most annoying effects so far I've encountered are:

The magic one where a small dragon spawns (This is also an endless source of XP, if you have the patience) because it makes buffing before the boss fight tiresome.

The volcanic one because any character with armor gets afflicted with heat metal and hence damage every round from the moment you enter. Protection from Energy (Fire), Communal is a literal livesaver.

The call lightning one because it doesn't strike randomly, it strikes where the ground is scorched and while the monsters don't walk around you have to. And some scorchmarks are in doorways. Also, the damage is crazy high.

[Silvercourage]

Originally posted by SentosKarum:

The most annoying effects so far I've encountered are:

The magic one where a small dragon spawns (This is also an endless source of XP, if you have the patience) because it makes buffing before the boss fight tiresome.

The volcanic one because any character with armor gets afflicted with heat metal and hence damage every round from the moment you enter. Protection from Energy (Fire), Communal is a literal livesaver.

The call lightning one because it doesn't strike randomly, it strikes where the ground is scorched and while the monsters don't walk around you have to. And some scorchmarks are in doorways. Also, the damage is crazy high.

Agreed on all of those, especially the doorway/full rooms scenario where if you dont have Prot from energy, you arent going to make it. Bonus frustration when you get the spells become random spells undertow so cant cast spells. I'll try a full set of potions although i think their caster level might be too low, or cost might be prohibited.

Huge water rooms were annoying because tower can hit you anywhere in the room, and water effect slows movement too.

I'm just curious how the people who've beaten the DLC (Roguelike) are handling them. Trying to run past? Trying to destroy them? Just not sure of a good strategy, especially if you get random spells undertow.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Alpha Bat]

The end of my first run and my first experience with undertows, so one-skull 6th island, was the water pillars.

Multiple throughout the island and each much stronger than the first expedition boss, whittling you down with an AoE attack + summoning a medium water elemental each turn. Fully buffed, my highest attack character could hit it on a roll of 17. It was... A bit much to throw at a group of four level 4s. First one could be cheesed. Second one could not.

Kinda wish the RNG was a little more fairly curved instead of "okay this island ends this run, get luckier next time"

[glenn3e]

Originally posted by Silvercourage:

Originally posted by SentosKarum:

The most annoying effects so far I've encountered are:

The magic one where a small dragon spawns (This is also an endless source of XP, if you have the patience) because it makes buffing before the boss fight tiresome.

The volcanic one because any character with armor gets afflicted with heat metal and hence damage every round from the moment you enter. Protection from Energy (Fire), Communal is a literal livesaver.

The call lightning one because it doesn't strike randomly, it strikes where the ground is scorched and while the monsters don't walk around you have to. And some scorchmarks are in doorways. Also, the damage is crazy high.

Agreed on all of those, especially the doorway/full rooms scenario where if you dont have Prot from energy, you arent going to make it. Bonus frustration when you get the spells become random spells undertow so cant cast spells. I'll try a full set of potions although i think their caster level might be too low, or cost might be prohibited.

Huge water rooms were annoying because tower can hit you anywhere in the room, and water effect slows movement too.

I'm just curious how the people who've beaten the DLC (Roguelike) are handling them. Trying to run past? Trying to destroy them? Just not sure of a good strategy, especially if you get random spells undertow.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Resist elements and prot elements communal is pretty much compulsary here. I get enduring and greater enduring spells on the buffer character so these spells can last 24 hours and I can just have them up all the time. Saves you the slots too, since you can cast them in town, rest and then go on your journey with them up all the way, no need to worry about concentration check undertows.

[tarrand54]

Originally posted by glenn3e:

Originally posted by Silvercourage:

Agreed on all of those, especially the doorway/full rooms scenario where if you dont have Prot from energy, you arent going to make it. Bonus frustration when you get the spells become random spells undertow so cant cast spells. I'll try a full set of potions although i think their caster level might be too low, or cost might be prohibited.

Huge water rooms were annoying because tower can hit you anywhere in the room, and water effect slows movement too.

I'm just curious how the people who've beaten the DLC (Roguelike) are handling them. Trying to run past? Trying to destroy them? Just not sure of a good strategy, especially if you get random spells undertow.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Resist elements and prot elements communal is pretty much compulsary here. I get enduring and greater enduring spells on the buffer character so these spells can last 24 hours and I can just have them up all the time. Saves you the slots too, since you can cast them in town, rest and then go on your journey with them up all the way, no need to worry about concentration check undertows.

Yeah but it still does bludgeoning damage not just cold

[Silvercourage]

Originally posted by Alpha Bat:

The end of my first run and my first experience with undertows, so one-skull 6th island, was the water pillars.

Multiple throughout the island and each much stronger than the first expedition boss, whittling you down with an AoE attack + summoning a medium water elemental each turn. Fully buffed, my highest attack character could hit it on a roll of 17. It was... A bit much to throw at a group of four level 4s. First one could be cheesed. Second one could not.

Kinda wish the RNG was a little more fairly curved instead of "okay this island ends this run, get luckier next time"

Absolutely this. Hit water pillars at level 4 (both times on first island of second round). I guess scrolls of communal resist are a must buy now but frustrating..

[Hideka Valheim]

the pillars arent bad at all - i think they arent easy for people who dont know the basics of how to pump AC/AB or work around inflated AC in the early stages.

For example, on a single DD By level 4, you have about BAB 3~4 - so clearly even rolling 19 isnt enough to hit, leaving only crits to hit.

To get around this:

1. Evil Eye AC -2 AC
2. Studied Target +1 AB
3. Freebooters Bond +1 AB (all)
4. Bard +1 AB (all)
5. Mutagen +2 AB
6. Debilitating Injury -2 AC
7. Flanking (i cant remember if they are immune to flank or not) -2 AC
8. Magic Weapon +1 AB
9. Bulls Strength/cats Grace +2 AB
10. Point blank/Weaponfocus +1~2
11. +1~2 weapon enhancement

thats a nice comfortable +14~18 to hit - giving you a total of +17-22 to hit, or about 60% Chance to hit.

Handling the massive amount of elemental spawns is EXCESSIVELY simple as well. Elementals at that level only have a paltry 1-7 Reflex save depending on their level, size, and difficulty settings, and are not immune to prone. Grease is one of the most powerful spells in this game, at almost every level of the game. early game its very potent simply because nothing really has flying, or prone immunity.

The Selective greasemage can just absolutely laugh at elemental adds at level 4 if done right.

1. Potent Spells Arcanist exploit (+2 DC)
2. Conjuration focus, Greater Conjuration focus (+2 DC)
3. 24 INT = +6 Int Bonus
4. Selective metamagic +1 Spell Level

this is a 23 DC Grease at level 4. depending on the elemental, they either have a 5% Chance to save out of it at maximum, or on the highest end a 15% Chance to save out of it.

ive easily stunlocked 10+ elementals with a single Persistent selective grease.

TL/DR: The pillars are tuned very well to be challenging to overcome, but really insignificant in terms of actual difficulty if you are familiar with the games mechanics.