Angel-Oracle - Is spell focus conjuration a MUST?

[radikel]

Finished a trickster run a couple of months, and am planning another run now as Angel-Oracle for the new content. Question being, most angel spells are conjuration, but, apart from heals, and buffs, the only noteworthy Conjuration spells are of course the Bolts/Storms of justice.
Thing being the damage is unavoidable and instant with no save, with a Reflex save being forced to avoid falling, which i assume is where the DC of the spell kicks in right?
Just for this 1 aspect of the bolts, is it worth taking 2 feats (Spell focus and Greater spell focus conjuration). I feel its better spent maximizing the dmg via bolster and rods, and spend the spare slot on Extend/Power Attack/Shatter Defenses...etc.

Question 2: Dipping really screws with caster progression does it not. You need 28 caster level for lvl.10 spells and dipping into Monk/Paladin, really makes it impossible, or makes it accessible only for the last 2 fights in the game.

[Yannir]

About question 2. Dipping for AC is pointless for casters anyway. AC doesn't really matter that much if you're a backliner.

[Conquista]

question 1: sounds like you play a gish, so no its not needed

questions 2: if you play a caster than its not really needed to dip into monk or paladin, if you play a gish than the extra ac is worth the trade off

[Nechlord]

Can't answer 1.
For 2, yes dipping can screw up progression. but you should be able to dip 2 levels into something else if your going full caster not including additional items which boost caster level. It will limit 10th level spells until the last two fights and the beyond excess dlc but I thought (may be wrong) that you can't get 10th level spells before then anyway.

You could also just say screw 10th level spells and go melee angel.
My current build is something like Mutation warrior 9, monk 1, cleric 2, loremaster 8. Its going to have a caster level of about 20/19 (build isn't finalised yet) enough for 9th level spells which I'll be able to cast using the sword of heaven haste ability whilst having about 6 attacks per turns.

Currently though that builds broken because it relies on using long swords with dex and the most recent patch broke fighters finesse+ mythic weapon finesse.

[radikel]

Originally posted by Conquista:

question 1: sounds like you play a gish, so no its not needed

questions 2: if you play a caster than its not really needed to dip into monk or paladin, if you play a gish than the extra ac is worth the trade off

Oracle is so busted, that it has great melee and casting, with Battle mystery. So it is tempting to wade into the melee. Besides, even for full casters, I dont see the point of spending 2 feats on conjuration just to ensure the enemy goes prone ( although it is very powerful) But the late game DCs are so high on Hard that i see it as pointless. Better to go bolster/maximize for the dmg of the bolts and then just enter melee.

[radikel]

Originally posted by Nechlord:

Can't answer 1.
For 2, yes dipping can screw up progression. but you should be able to dip 2 levels into something else if your going full caster not including additional items which boost caster level. It will limit 10th level spells until the last two fights and the beyond excess dlc but I thought (may be wrong) that you can't get 10th level spells before then anyway.

You could also just say screw 10th level spells and go melee angel.
My current build is something like Mutation warrior 9, monk 1, cleric 2, loremaster 8. Its going to have a caster level of about 20/19 (build isn't finalised yet) enough for 9th level spells which I'll be able to cast using the sword of heaven haste ability whilst having about 6 attacks per turns.

Currently though that builds broken because it relies on using long swords with dex and the most recent patch broke fighters finesse+ mythic weapon finesse.

For the lvl.10 spells , only army of heaven seems really solid. But just RP-wise it would be cool to have access to them.
Besides, till lvl.9 spells and maximising your bolts plus solid melee, and all the buffs, seems worth it over just getting access to Lvl.10 spells.

[Lord_WC]

Originally posted by Yannir:

AC doesn't really matter that much if you're a backliner.

Famous last words from someone that didn't play harder than Core.

[Raikon]

Originally posted by radikill:

Finished a trickster run a couple of months, and am planning another run now as Angel-Oracle for the new content. Question being, most angel spells are conjuration, but, apart from heals, and buffs, the only noteworthy Conjuration spells are of course the Bolts/Storms of justice.
Thing being the damage is unavoidable and instant with no save, with a Reflex save being forced to avoid falling, which i assume is where the DC of the spell kicks in right?
Just for this 1 aspect of the bolts, is it worth taking 2 feats (Spell focus and Greater spell focus conjuration). I feel its better spent maximizing the dmg via bolster and rods, and spend the spare slot on Extend/Power Attack/Shatter Defenses...etc.

Question 2: Dipping really screws with caster progression does it not. You need 28 caster level for lvl.10 spells and dipping into Monk/Paladin, really makes it impossible, or makes it accessible only for the last 2 fights in the game.

I am currently playing an angel oracle (its going slow because I have so much work).

My angel oracle is a variation of the lich I just played, I'm seeing if the numbers are comparable (lich was doing 500 damage per round ish) Why did I give all this information that you probably dont care about? Well I wanted to establish that its a melee.

I dont see a need for paladin. You can get bestow grace from an actual paladin, and you can cast bestow grace of the champion. This gives charisma modifier x2 to your saves. Further more, 1 dip of scaled fist is really good for melee (obviously). I plan on doing 19/1.

Ill probably post a picture of a finished product here of what its capabable of.

[Conquista]

you pick paladin as angel oracle mostly for smite, it makes you solo the game without much effort

[radikel]

Originally posted by Conquista:

you pick paladin as angel oracle mostly for smite, it makes you solo the game without much effort

Hmmm..I thought you go angel oracle mostly for Bolt/Storm of justice which clears areas en masse. I doubt paladin dipping for smite is worth it as you get only 2 uses . Maybe you can juggle around a mythic feat to get Abundant smite which I can see giving huge bonues in late thanks to our charisma.
But you always have seelah with Mark of Justice.

[Conquista]

Originally posted by radikill:

Originally posted by Conquista:

you pick paladin as angel oracle mostly for smite, it makes you solo the game without much effort

Hmmm..I thought you go angel oracle mostly for Bolt/Storm of justice which clears areas en masse. I doubt paladin dipping for smite is worth it as you get only 2 uses . Maybe you can juggle around a mythic feat to get Abundant smite which I can see giving huge bonues in late thanks to our charisma.
But you always have seelah with Mark of Justice.

you can play classes and mythic paths differently, like my example was for soloing so no seelah, for a party setting there are of course other viable builds and even with soloing you can chose different routes