Is aeon path badly written or presented ?

[BOXman]

So far the aeon only seems to show me people who committed crimes or wrong doings.
Yet aeons are supposed to be the balance beings the one who must keep both good and bad in check. Yet im only presented by the bad people. So far the game hasn't shown me anyone whose been "TOO good". IDK if they forgot about this giant plot hole or something.

TBH aeons just seems to act like that one kid in class who keeps asking for more homework.

[Orion Invictus]

Keep playing.

[Yannir]

Some people seem to confuse Aeon's adherence to cosmic law as some kind of balance. Order is the right word, not balance. Aeon is Lawful Extreme and what it sees as evil is breaking law, even for a good purpose.

[BOXman]

If that's the case that just seems boring and annoying.
I wanted to be like above the ridiculous extreme all sides show. Like really everyone is always extreme good or extreme bad EVEN the neutral ones are so extreme is just annoying.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by BOXman:

So far the aeon only seems to show me people who committed crimes or wrong doings.
Yet aeons are supposed to be the balance beings the one who must keep both good and bad in check. Yet im only presented by the bad people. So far the game hasn't shown me anyone whose been "TOO good". IDK if they forgot about this giant plot hole or something.

TBH aeons just seems to act like that one kid in class who keeps asking for more homework.

Aeons are not about Balance, they are Law extremists.
Aeons will go to excruciating lengths to punish criminals, even if the laws they broke are tyrannical or unfair.

There is no True Neutral celestials in the game.
You have Lawful Good (Angel OR Gold Dragon), Chaotic Good (Azata), Neutral Good (Angel, Gold Dragon OR Azata), Lawful Neutral (Aeon), Chaotic Neutral (Trickster), Lawful Evil (Devil OR Lich), Neutral Evil (Lich) and Chaotic Evil (Demon).

The real Balance choice would be Legend, since you do not pick any of the ideological extremes, but you also do not become any for of trancendental being, and instead get a second Class to double lvl to 20, representing your full commitment to Mortality and the full ambiguity of the mortal experience.

Aeons are Universal Police, not Balance actors.

Originally posted by Yannir:

Some people seem to confuse Aeon's adherence to cosmic law as some kind of balance. Order is the right word, not balance. Aeon is Lawful Extreme and what it sees as evil is breaking law, even for a good purpose.

Exactly!

[BOXman]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by BOXman:

So far the aeon only seems to show me people who committed crimes or wrong doings.
Yet aeons are supposed to be the balance beings the one who must keep both good and bad in check. Yet im only presented by the bad people. So far the game hasn't shown me anyone whose been "TOO good". IDK if they forgot about this giant plot hole or something.

TBH aeons just seems to act like that one kid in class who keeps asking for more homework.

Aeons are not about Balance, they are Law extremists.
Aeons will go to excruciating lengths to punish criminals, even if the laws they broke are tyrannical or unfair.

There is no True Neutral celestials in the game.
You have Lawful Good (Angel OR Gold Dragon), Chaotic Good (Azata), Neutral Good (Angel, Gold Dragon OR Azata), Lawful Neutral (Aeon), Chaotic Neutral (Trickster), Lawful Evil (Devil OR Lich), Neutral Evil (Lich) and Chaotic Evil (Demon).

The real Balance choice would be Legend, since you do not pick any of the ideological extremes, but you also do not become any for of trancendental being, and instead get a second Class to double lvl to 20, representing your full commitment to Mortality and the full ambiguity of the mortal experience.

Aeons are Universal Police, not Balance actors.

Originally posted by Yannir:

Some people seem to confuse Aeon's adherence to cosmic law as some kind of balance. Order is the right word, not balance. Aeon is Lawful Extreme and what it sees as evil is breaking law, even for a good purpose.

Exactly!

Yikes... well thanks for explanation. Now i truly hate this even more. Like this is soo badly written.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by BOXman:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Aeons are not about Balance, they are Law extremists.
Aeons will go to excruciating lengths to punish criminals, even if the laws they broke are tyrannical or unfair.

There is no True Neutral celestials in the game.
You have Lawful Good (Angel OR Gold Dragon), Chaotic Good (Azata), Neutral Good (Angel, Gold Dragon OR Azata), Lawful Neutral (Aeon), Chaotic Neutral (Trickster), Lawful Evil (Devil OR Lich), Neutral Evil (Lich) and Chaotic Evil (Demon).

The real Balance choice would be Legend, since you do not pick any of the ideological extremes, but you also do not become any for of trancendental being, and instead get a second Class to double lvl to 20, representing your full commitment to Mortality and the full ambiguity of the mortal experience.

Aeons are Universal Police, not Balance actors.


Exactly!

Yikes... well thanks for explanation. Now i truly hate this even more. Like this is soo badly written.

It is not badly written, you just misunderstood.
To be fair, one has to have some background in D&D or Pathfinder to understand all the Alignment Agents of the Planes.
Just reroll, and play a Legend Monk, if what you want is a Buddhist Balance approach, since you transcend by abandoning universal struggles of righ and wrong, law and order, by doing so as a mortal of exceptional attributes.

The one with the Quarterstaff focus, double leveling into Legend Great Weapon Fighter, is a beast. You will strike so fast, and so strong, you can 2 hit even lategame bosses, without using any Ki moves.

[BOXman]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by BOXman:

Yikes... well thanks for explanation. Now i truly hate this even more. Like this is soo badly written.

It is not badly written, you just misunderstood.
To be fair, one has to have some background in D&D or Pathfinder to understand all the Alignment Agents of the Planes.
Just reroll, and play a Legend Monk, if what you want is a Buddhist Balance approach, since you transcend by abandoning universal struggles of righ and wrong, law and order, by doing so as a mortal of exceptional attributes.

The one with the Quarterstaff focus, double leveling into Legend Great Weapon Fighter, is a beast. You will strike so fast, and so strong, you can 2 hit even lategame bosses, without using any Ki moves.

that sounds dope. But don't you think that the devs or writers basically force the players to choosing one giant extreme ? You can be either super good, super evil, super natural or super police as you said. It sounds more like super limiting and lazy wouldn't be 100x more interesting if you could be MORE? like be both lawful yet chaotic (like your own rules type thing) or being natural and being above the norm of the world,plane or universe you are in.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by BOXman:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

It is not badly written, you just misunderstood.
To be fair, one has to have some background in D&D or Pathfinder to understand all the Alignment Agents of the Planes.
Just reroll, and play a Legend Monk, if what you want is a Buddhist Balance approach, since you transcend by abandoning universal struggles of righ and wrong, law and order, by doing so as a mortal of exceptional attributes.

The one with the Quarterstaff focus, double leveling into Legend Great Weapon Fighter, is a beast. You will strike so fast, and so strong, you can 2 hit even lategame bosses, without using any Ki moves.

that sounds dope. But don't you think that the devs or writers basically force the players to choosing one giant extreme ? You can be either super good, super evil, super natural or super police as you said. It sounds more like super limiting and lazy wouldn't be 100x more interesting if you could be MORE? like be both lawful yet chaotic (like your own rules type thing) or being natural and being above the norm of the world,plane or universe you are in.

No, they do not force you, you can alway choose Legend, which precisely against the extremes.
The nature of the Divine/Abyssal/Infernal is, logically, extreme by default. That is the whole point of those choices, becoming a post-mortal extreme.

No, being BOTH Lawful and Chaotic would make no sense, they are competing universal forces, if one win, it will entirely rewrite reality so the other could never possibly exist in the first place.
That is like saying: would it not be interesting to be both sane and insane at the same time?
No, Insanity, by definition, is lack of Sanity. Evil is lack of Good. Chaos is lack of Law. Darkness is lack of Light.
And so on.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by BOXman:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

It is not badly written, you just misunderstood.
To be fair, one has to have some background in D&D or Pathfinder to understand all the Alignment Agents of the Planes.
Just reroll, and play a Legend Monk, if what you want is a Buddhist Balance approach, since you transcend by abandoning universal struggles of righ and wrong, law and order, by doing so as a mortal of exceptional attributes.

The one with the Quarterstaff focus, double leveling into Legend Great Weapon Fighter, is a beast. You will strike so fast, and so strong, you can 2 hit even lategame bosses, without using any Ki moves.

that sounds dope. But don't you think that the devs or writers basically force the players to choosing one giant extreme ? You can be either super good, super evil, super natural or super police as you said. It sounds more like super limiting and lazy wouldn't be 100x more interesting if you could be MORE? like be both lawful yet chaotic (like your own rules type thing) or being natural and being above the norm of the world,plane or universe you are in.

That sounds like the same "actually, the good guys are also bad and the bad guys are also good" shtick that's been shoved down our throats by everything everywhere for the past decade. It's overdone. At this point, I'd much rather have characters who better represent what people are actually like: often falling squarely into one camp or the other, even if they themselves don't recognize it (Regill not recognizing he's an evil authoritarian, for example).

Also, doing that would go against the entire mythos of Pathfinder and is just logically inconsistent.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by BOXman:

that sounds dope. But don't you think that the devs or writers basically force the players to choosing one giant extreme ? You can be either super good, super evil, super natural or super police as you said. It sounds more like super limiting and lazy wouldn't be 100x more interesting if you could be MORE? like be both lawful yet chaotic (like your own rules type thing) or being natural and being above the norm of the world,plane or universe you are in.

That sounds like the same "actually, the good guys are also bad and the bad guys are also good" shtick that's been shoved down our throats by everything everywhere for the past decade. It's overdone. At this point, I'd much rather have characters who better represent what people are actually like: often falling squarely into one camp or the other, even if they themselves don't recognize it (Regill not recognizing he's evil, for example).

Also, doing that would go against the entire mythos of Pathfinder and is just logically inconsistent.

Yes, I would much rather have clearly defined Super Good and Super Evil characters, than the boring "gReY mOrALiTy" that we got for about 10 years now.
Angels vs Devils is far better a basis, than "everyone has secret motives and aspirations, but they all seem to fumble at plot points anyway", that we have had for quite a while, and yet failed to produce any good stories.

I have FAR more sympathy and understanding for a Dark Knight that just wants power or revenge, than for one that has PTSD from seeing the neighbours cat eat his hamster one day, when he was 5 years old, and he just snapped recently.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

That sounds like the same "actually, the good guys are also bad and the bad guys are also good" shtick that's been shoved down our throats by everything everywhere for the past decade. It's overdone. At this point, I'd much rather have characters who better represent what people are actually like: often falling squarely into one camp or the other, even if they themselves don't recognize it (Regill not recognizing he's evil, for example).

Also, doing that would go against the entire mythos of Pathfinder and is just logically inconsistent.

Yes, I would much rather have clearly defined Super Good and Super Evil characters, than the boring "gReY mOrALiTy" that we got for about 10 years now.
Angels vs Devils is far better a basis, than "everyone has secret motives and aspirations, but they all seem to fumble at plot points anyway", that we have had for quite a while, and yet failed to produce any good stories.

I have FAR more sympathy and understanding for a Dark Knight that just wants power or revenge, than for one that has PTSD from seeing the neighbours cat eat his hamster one day, when he was 5 years old, and he just snapped recently.

I'm not saying they need to be super good/evil, but at least stop with the "grey morality" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Some people are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and proud of it. When you call them out on them being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ people, they act like that's a badge of honor, because their sole purpose in life is to just be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I can't even mention real-life examples because forum rules, but you know what I'm talking about.

[SoundsOfNight]

The answer is yes. Aeon is not well written at all. You feel more like a clerical admin than a cosmic judge.

[BOXman]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

That sounds like the same "actually, the good guys are also bad and the bad guys are also good" shtick that's been shoved down our throats by everything everywhere for the past decade. It's overdone. At this point, I'd much rather have characters who better represent what people are actually like: often falling squarely into one camp or the other, even if they themselves don't recognize it (Regill not recognizing he's evil, for example).

Also, doing that would go against the entire mythos of Pathfinder and is just logically inconsistent.

Yes, I would much rather have clearly defined Super Good and Super Evil characters, than the boring "gReY mOrALiTy" that we got for about 10 years now.
Angels vs Devils is far better a basis, than "everyone has secret motives and aspirations, but they all seem to fumble at plot points anyway", that we have had for quite a while, and yet failed to produce any good stories.

I have FAR more sympathy and understanding for a Dark Knight that just wants power or revenge, than for one that has PTSD from seeing the neighbours cat eat his hamster one day, when he was 5 years old, and he just snapped recently.

But having a simply morality aspect of characters is not necessarily good, how can you have more sympathy to something that is so closed minded by its writing ?
I don't care about 90% of the dudes or the main plot because its super super bland and simple. Even the whole architect or puppeteer behind the scenes is also presented very boringly.
Grey morality is an awesome yet difficult thing to really show and write. Having actual companions who have more to them than "im good so ill fight for you because they are evil shtick" OR "I'm whacky and the comedic output of this story so ill stay with you and say random NOT funny things along the way (also i have a very sad background story)"
OR "I'm super super strict and one note commander and i do not grow up AT ALL."
Its boring and ridiclous because i cannot sympathies with them because everyone is just this AND ONLY THIS the only way for them to truly change is if the story suddenly tells you that you can now force someone good to be evil, ooohhh how creative and cool right you never expected this did you ?
furthermore having morality choices beings based on only extreme options is failing at being well written choices. for example at the actual start of the game that still bothers me.
You find seelha trying to help the archer adviser women to escape the debry she's stuck under. Your only options are:
-help
-help
-help
-be a ♥♥♥♥ and help
and that's it.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

The answer is yes. Aeon is not well written at all. You feel more like a clerical admin than a cosmic judge.

Aeons are not judges, they are police.
They carry on judgement, but do not pass it on themselves.

As an example:
-In an entire plane, the ruling powers decided that Might makes Right, so now Murder and Theft are perfectly legal there. An Aeon in this plane would not go after murderers and thieves, because it is not illegal. He does not judge, he follows laws to the letter.

-On the other hand, in a different plane the powers that be decided that theft is illegal, so the Aeon will literally condemn a puppy that stole a fillet to survive, to eternal damnation and Hellfire, after he killed it.

Aeons are cops. The only "judges" they could be compared to, is Judge Dredd style judges.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by BOXman:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Yes, I would much rather have clearly defined Super Good and Super Evil characters, than the boring "gReY mOrALiTy" that we got for about 10 years now.
Angels vs Devils is far better a basis, than "everyone has secret motives and aspirations, but they all seem to fumble at plot points anyway", that we have had for quite a while, and yet failed to produce any good stories.

I have FAR more sympathy and understanding for a Dark Knight that just wants power or revenge, than for one that has PTSD from seeing the neighbours cat eat his hamster one day, when he was 5 years old, and he just snapped recently.

But having a simply morality aspect of characters is not necessarily good, how can you have more sympathy to something that is so closed minded by its writing ?
I don't care about 90% of the dudes or the main plot because its super super bland and simple. Even the whole architect or puppeteer behind the scenes is also presented very boringly.
Grey morality is an awesome yet difficult thing to really show and write. Having actual companions who have more to them than "im good so ill fight for you because they are evil shtick" OR "I'm whacky and the comedic output of this story so ill stay with you and say random NOT funny things along the way (also i have a very sad background story)"
OR "I'm super super strict and one note commander and i do not grow up AT ALL."
Its boring and ridiclous because i cannot sympathies with them because everyone is just this AND ONLY THIS the only way for them to truly change is if the story suddenly tells you that you can now force someone good to be evil, ooohhh how creative and cool right you never expected this did you ?
furthermore having morality choices beings based on only extreme options is failing at being well written choices. for example at the actual start of the game that still bothers me.
You find seelha trying to help the archer adviser women to escape the debry she's stuck under. Your only options are:
-help
-help
-help
-be a ♥♥♥♥ and help
and that's it.

Yes, some NPCs are protected because their existence is required by the story.

Serious question, no judgement: is this your first RPG?