Eldritch Scion when take DD levels

[mudakonn]

looking at last levels of ES there are very good abilities and a Magus feat what 4 levels of DD will lock You out and one caster level. DD nets you 4 STR, bite attack and 2 breath attacks. But i guess +2 to attack and damage plus additional attack is pretty strong and you get them early when it really matters.

[ptirodaktill]

DD is a noob trap most of the time . 4 wasted levels of magus progression for 3 dmg amd 2 AC? You can get the same result from just one level of vivi and get a sneak attack dice on top of it.
Keep in mind 4 levels of DD is like 4 level w/o dimension strike and 4 levels w/o bane weapons and 4 levels w/o extra weapon enchantment.

[mudakonn]

引用自 ptirodaktill：

DD is a noob trap most of the time . 4 wasted levels of magus progression for 3 dmg amd 2 AC? You can get the same result from just one level of vivi and get a sneak attack dice on top of it.
Keep in mind 4 levels of DD is like 4 level w/o dimension strike and 4 levels w/o bane weapons and 4 levels w/o extra weapon enchantment.

Yes, my thought as well - but DD synergizes well with ES advancing bloodline and getting these 2 extra breath attacks and bite / since ES is always enlarged extra damage seems too good to pass. I guess it is the weight of dimension and bane strikes vs extra attacks and extra breaths.

[Dark3nedDragon]

引用自 mudakonn：

引用自 ptirodaktill：

DD is a noob trap most of the time . 4 wasted levels of magus progression for 3 dmg amd 2 AC? You can get the same result from just one level of vivi and get a sneak attack dice on top of it.
Keep in mind 4 levels of DD is like 4 level w/o dimension strike and 4 levels w/o bane weapons and 4 levels w/o extra weapon enchantment.

Yes, my thought as well - but DD synergizes well with ES advancing bloodline and getting these 2 extra breath attacks and bite / since ES is always enlarged extra damage seems too good to pass. I guess it is the weight of dimension and bane strikes vs extra attacks and extra breaths.

Depends entirely on the Path you're going in my opinion.

Magus can be exceptionally strong, but also exceptionally weak depending on build and path. Demon offers it an off-hand attack that scales reasonably well, assuming you're going a Strength Build. But, for something like Lich you're arguably better off going with a Sorcerer into Eldritch Knight.

Azata can probably do just fine as a Magus, as could Trickster due to the Wands and Wand-Spell-Combat option. I believe they basically removed it, but on launch Oracle Angel Merged with a ES Magus and into Mystic Theurge was at least interesting, you gained some Angel spells that you could cast as a Magus, and as long as you didn't take the Mythic Ability to make Healing Ranged instead of Touch, you could cast Heals on yourself and still make all your full attack and all bonus attacks.

But mixing Magus and DD ends up making you a fair bit weaker offensively, huge difference in some of the levels of Magus to others, and reaching them earlier can make near impossible fights doable.

Mixing in the levels for Mutation Warrior instead of DD will make you WAAAAAY stronger. Generally though, still depends on Path and Build.

[ptirodaktill]

No idea why mutation warrior get all that hype. As long as unfair is in mind, all late game is bashing 85AC(14AC after dimension strike+shatter defense) Vavakia`s and clearing trash from the map. Sure on trickster path AC is irrelevant as you have trick fate, but it come late. I wouldn`t dip past 1 lvl monk/ 1 lvl oracle on trickster. And only dip intro smite classes for extra AB juice on legend path.

[Steffan]

Persuasion 3 & maxed intimidation (+ feats) of trickster and only (some of) the bosses are left to not commit coup de grace. And you have trick fate and completely normal spell (== more trick fate). For the trickster is all about getting to that point (you can potentially enter in a very hard boss fight during your mythic quest, though).

The abyssal bloodline is far better for strength. Dragon disciple can work but it is not the most optimal build.

P.S. I am playing on hard, though and I do not die a lot (in my first blind game, 90% of deaths occured first half of the game; more than 50% of the deaths in the fight against Hossila (prologue boss)). Unfair seems too brutal, too dicy. I have never played on unfair so I can not talk about it.

[Silyon]

I just wrapped up an Eldrich Scion playthrough myself. I thought about taking DD, but only briefly. In giving 10 levels to the Prestige, you're losing out on a ton of spells (including 6th level spells entirely), Heavy armor use, and multiple Magus Arcana that could have been nice Metamagics like Maximize or Quicken. In exchange, Dragon Disciple gives you core stat buffs and a transformation at cap.

I ended up just going with the Gold Dragon Mythic Path. Same boons without sacrificing anything. Dragon Disciple just doesn't give spellcasters what they actually need, which is additional spells and spells per day. That said I am trying it out with the Dragonheir Scion Fighter archetype next. Stacking martial bonuses on top of a primarily martial class just seems like a better idea than trying to turn a caster into a martial.

[Drake]

引用自 Silyon：

I just wrapped up an Eldrich Scion playthrough myself. I thought about taking DD, but only briefly. In giving 10 levels to the Prestige, you're losing out on a ton of spells (including 6th level spells entirely), Heavy armor use, and multiple Magus Arcana that could have been nice Metamagics like Maximize or Quicken. In exchange, Dragon Disciple gives you core stat buffs and a transformation at cap.

I ended up just going with the Gold Dragon Mythic Path. Same boons without sacrificing anything. Dragon Disciple just doesn't give spellcasters what they actually need, which is additional spells and spells per day. That said I am trying it out with the Dragonheir Scion Fighter archetype next. Stacking martial bonuses on top of a primarily martial class just seems like a better idea than trying to turn a caster into a martial.

Be carefull with DD if you pick dragonheir Scion, the dragonheir class is kind of buggy with bloodlines, it's kind of like scaled fist monk, your bloodline counts for restriction but not for advancement, so leveling in dragonheir doesn't level sorcerer, DD or bloodrager bloodlines, and the opposite is true, only dragonheir levels raise dragonheir bloodline which is a shame (and don't think about getting mythic bloodline feats, nor dragonheir or DD count as bloodline for mythic feats, only sorcerers, and bloodrager but only for second bloodline).

I made a dragonheir 9, bloodrager 7 DD 4, and leveling had issues (I had to be careful which one to pick each level up to get the bloodrager bloodline feats, because DD actually gives you sorcerer bloodline feats, whatever the class).
By the way, After doing that run, I have to say, bloodrager / DD is way better than sorcerer / DD for a fighter/mage type.

[Silyon]

引用自 Drake：

Be carefull with DD if you pick dragonheir Scion, the dragonheir class is kind of buggy with bloodlines, it's kind of like scaled fist monk, your bloodline counts for restriction but not for advancement, so leveling in dragonheir doesn't level sorcerer, DD or bloodrager bloodlines, and the opposite is true, only dragonheir levels raise dragonheir bloodline which is a shame (and don't think about getting mythic bloodline feats, nor dragonheir or DD count as bloodline for mythic feats, only sorcerers, and bloodrager but only for second bloodline).

I made a dragonheir 9, bloodrager 7 DD 4, and leveling had issues (I had to be careful which one to pick each level up to get the bloodrager bloodline feats, because DD actually gives you sorcerer bloodline feats, whatever the class).
By the way, After doing that run, I have to say, bloodrager / DD is way better than sorcerer / DD for a fighter/mage type.

Thanks for the warning, but what part of this game isn't buggy as hell anyway? I mean, last time I took Dragonheir I had the special Dazzling display they get at level 8 just vanish off my character entirely, even through respecing. Which is fun, only kills the point of taking the archetype over vanilla fighter in the first place.

Not going to be a run on Core or anything like that anyway. Game's hard enough with so many bugs to micromanage and actions getting ghosted that I don't feel inclined to make it even harder on myself with artificially inflated stats. On Normal, anything should be managable.

[mudakonn]

So going STR based ES it is actually better then take extra bloodline Abyssal and get STR bonuses there - missing out extra electrical damage bloodline (bronze i think)

[ptirodaktill]

Abyssal bloodline STR come so late it hardly matter. Sure +6 look like a good bonus, but it only +2 at lvl 9 if you stay pure and you probably want to dip intro at least monk and oracle for AC , so its just +2 at lvl 11. Meh and +6 at lvl 19 is close to nothing. Free AC from dragonic bloodline and a bonus for dice on spells is usualy better .

[mudakonn]

Thank you for the answer - it is then more prudent to stick with elemental damage. Another dragon bloodline doubles electrical damage bonus what could be better. What about Sorc reflex what could allow extra electrical attack before spell comat - or is it too much of a micro turn it off for reflex spell and on for the full attack afterwards

[Igg12]

引用自 mudakonn：

Thank you for the answer - it is then more prudent to stick with elemental damage. Another dragon bloodline doubles electrical damage bonus what could be better. What about Sorc reflex what could allow extra electrical attack before spell comat - or is it too much of a micro turn it off for reflex spell and on for the full attack afterwards

Arcane bloodline is very good for ES, go with familiar, you can also skip combat casting, and + 2 DC for one of the schools is fantastic.

[atm]

Note that Abyssal bloodline strength is actually slightly worse than it appears, since it is an Inherent bonus, which does not stack with other inherent bonuses. This means if you were going to use the +2 to all stats elixir in Act 5, you are really only getting 4 strength from Abyssal bloodline, not 6. This means if you are choosing between abyssal bloodline as a second bloodline and say master shapeshifter, you are getting the same amount of strength, while master shapeshifter is also giving you +4 dex and +4 con on top of the strength.

[mudakonn]

引用自 Lieutenant：

引用自 mudakonn：

Thank you for the answer - it is then more prudent to stick with elemental damage. Another dragon bloodline doubles electrical damage bonus what could be better. What about Sorc reflex what could allow extra electrical attack before spell comat - or is it too much of a micro turn it off for reflex spell and on for the full attack afterwards

Arcane bloodline is very good for ES, go with familiar, you can also skip combat casting, and + 2 DC for one of the schools is fantastic.

You can skip combat casting for the expense of Mythic Ability - i kind of find mythic abilities way more powerful than feats and i am already blowing one for extra bloodline so no. Maybe viable for solo when You can reach lvl 20 in no time and get it like that?

[Igg12]

引用自 mudakonn：

引用自 Lieutenant：

Arcane bloodline is very good for ES, go with familiar, you can also skip combat casting, and + 2 DC for one of the schools is fantastic.

You can skip combat casting for the expense of Mythic Ability - i kind of find mythic abilities way more powerful than feats and i am already blowing one for extra bloodline so no. Maybe viable for solo when You can reach lvl 20 in no time and get it like that?

Combat Casting is relevant early game, but due to stat bloat, becomes rather unimportant later on, arcane bloodline is still good, new arcana(bestow curse, animate dead), school power, these are much better imo then abyssal's + 6 to strength, DC is much harder to get. This is of course for a more spell oriented magus.