Why don't empower, maximize feats work on healing ("Cure") spells?

[Hathur]

Cure light wounds, cure medium, critical, serious, etc... you can't use Empower or maximize feats on them. I can apply them just fine to damage spells, but you can't apply them to cure spells. Why? You can do it in the PnP version of pathfinder.

This bug has persisted since the game launched quite some time ago... why the hell hasn't this been fixed after all this time???

[Lost Valkyrie 83]

doesn't cure spells count as divine and doesn't metamagic feats apply to strictly to arcane spells? i admit i could be wrong in my remembering (having to reinstall after a mod bugged me royally so can't double check yet) but it seems to me they are incompatible energies for the feats.... or at least that has been my assumption.

[Dryad]

Originally posted by Lost Valkyrie 83:

doesn't cure spells count as divine and doesn't metamagic feats apply to strictly to arcane spells? i admit i could be wrong in my remembering (having to reinstall after a mod bugged me royally so can't double check yet) but it seems to me they are incompatible energies for the feats.... or at least that has been my assumption.

No, people should be able to metamagic divine spells. The feats just care about spells, divine, arcane, or psychic, they don't care.

[Frostfeather]

No there are just several spells for which some kinds of metamagic don't work. It's a bug, it's been reported to Owlcat repeatedly, it's been around since before release, and there's no explanation for why it's not fixed beyond Owlcat being Owlcat. Especially since you can use metamagic on those most of those spells just fine in Kingmaker.

[Raikon]

Is one of those spells bestow grace of the champion? Ive always wondered if it was intentional that extend spell didnt work with it, or a bug.

[Gorwe]

False Life also can't be maximizes. I know. >.>

There is a mod that fixes this, but I don't know how it interacts with 1.3+.

[mna99]

Seems like True Sight won't work with Extend Spell (but Communal True Sight will?!?)

[Ichthyic]

Originally posted by Raikon:

Is one of those spells bestow grace of the champion? Ive always wondered if it was intentional that extend spell didnt work with it, or a bug.

there are spells you cannot use certain types of metamagic on, but when you go to the metamagic screen, those will clearly be "redded" out and you cannot even apply them if you wanted to. AFAICT, those all follow the TT ruleset. If you CAN apply a metamagic skill to a spell... and it simply doesn't work when you cast the spell, that would be a bug.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

Originally posted by Raikon:

Is one of those spells bestow grace of the champion? Ive always wondered if it was intentional that extend spell didnt work with it, or a bug.

there are spells you cannot use certain types of metamagic on, but when you go to the metamagic screen, those will clearly be "redded" out and you cannot even apply them if you wanted to. AFAICT, those all follow the TT ruleset. If you CAN apply a metamagic skill to a spell... and it simply doesn't work when you cast the spell, that would be a bug.

Ok, so, riddle me this:

Maximize: min - max becomes max ; must have min - max part(3d4 or whatever)
False Life: min - max temporary hp(2d10 + caster level iirc) -> CAN'T MAXIMIZE

???

[Ichthyic]

check the ruleset first.

[MachineGod]

The answer is obvious, it is not a bug it's a new feature called "Healing isn't magic anymore so screw your meta-magic" they added this in because healing is OP

[fox5s]

I thought False Life was 1d10+caster level (up to +10) for a max possible of 20. Greater False Life was 2d10+caster level (up to +20) for a max possible of 40.

[Drake]

For cure spells this is a non issue. A maximized or empowered spell isn't as good as the leveled up version version. Like if you empower light cure wound, you won't get better healing than a cure serious wound, so just use cure serious wound. And past that, you'll just use the heal spell to full heal a char anyway.
This is why pathfinder 2 and starfinder ruleset just revamped the metamagic stuff and now you get a single one multilevel cure spell and depending on which slot (and at which level) you put it, it will heightens and empowers itself accordingly.

[fox5s]

@Drake That's mostly true, but there are exceptions.

For example, if you are using a Rod, you aren't actually increasing the spell level to get the Maximized effect. I think there are Class Features that give you use of some Metamagics without raising the spells level. And there are some other miscellaneous things that may reduce the level (Favored Metamagic).

I'm not sure all of those are available (and useful) to Cure spell users, but you get my point.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by fox5s:

I thought False Life was 1d10+caster level (up to +10) for a max possible of 20. Greater False Life was 2d10+caster level (up to +20) for a max possible of 40.

It is, but it doesn't matter in my example. You can't MAX either of them.

Originally posted by Ichthyic:

check the ruleset first.

Yeah, like what?

[fox5s]

I was just checking your numbers to help make sure you had the correct Max in mind when testing. I haven't tried Maximize on those spells so can't say for sure.