What happens if a lich stops being evil?

[forrestomintero]

Just curious. If I decide to start being a good guy once I finish my ascension, can I just do that with no consequences?

[seeker1]

As has been said in several threads, with Lich, as with most Mythic alignments, not remaining at least one axis off the modal alignment usually blocks you from the culmination of the path/MR 10.

If you want complete your transformation, you gotta be evil. When you get there: the game definitely lets you know this.

[Gorwe]

I have a question: "Is a non-evil Lich a possible thing? (in lore and if not, why)"

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I have a question: "Is a non-evil Lich a possible thing? (in lore and if not, why)"

At best a Lich can be neutral; they are never good-aligned. Being an intelligent undead tends to erode one's morals and sense of empathy, which is what primarily defines good, and the research and ritual to become one requires acts that a good character is simply not going to be ok with doing in the first place, such as having lab-rats to practice soul-extraction and preservation on. A neutral Lich is one that's given up on or already achieved whatever personal goal drove him to become one in the first place, and are left more apathetic than anything else.

[Koveras]

One caveat. In D&D there is/was a type intelligent elven undead spellcaster known as a baelnorn that is the equivalent of a lich. Baelnorns may be any alignment. I see it also has the concept of 'arch-liches' which are good aligned.

[Schlumpsha]

Good thing baelnorns and arch liches are exclusive to D&D and don't exist within Pathfinder.

[jsaving]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I have a question: "Is a non-evil Lich a possible thing? (in lore and if not, why)"

In Pathfinder lore, lichdom is achieved through callous disregard for life and involves mass murder of innocent life as part of your ascension. Moreover the process of becoming a lich extinguishes any qualms you might have about this, leaving you with a permanently evil alignment and no desire whatsoever to consider changing that. So it wouldn't be a meaningful question in Pathfinder to ask what would happen if you decided to be a non-evil lich, unless there were some sort of divine intervention that enabled you and you alone to break the rules (like there was with Arue on the flipside).

In D&D, on the other hand, lichdom isn't achieved through callous disregard for life and you don't necessarily have to hurt others to achieve it. D&D liches often do hate life, but there are examples of liches whose consciences grew over time as well as lich-like creatures such as the baelnorn who stand neutral or even benevolent vigil over living communities. So it would be possible in D&D to role-play a non-evil lich.

[Immortal Reaver]

You cannot become Neutral with Lich after transformation. Aligment wheel is locked to any Evil.

[Thracian]

unfortunately game railroads you into doing evil things. no roleplay there

[Babbles]

You can choose a GOOD option and let people live after the IZ battle.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Babbles:

You can choose a GOOD option and let people live after the IZ battle.

I mean, that isn't good per se and it's kinda stupid(they'll return with reinforcements). But, yeah, it is there.

[synnworld]

Originally posted by Babbles:

You can choose a GOOD option and let people live after the IZ battle.

...is this before lt after the story railroads you to killing everyone in drezen for no damn reason

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I have a question: "Is a non-evil Lich a possible thing? (in lore and if not, why)"

Yes it is, in fact in the 2nd edition monstrous manual it talks about them in detail, they are exceedingly rare and rarely exist very long as the requirement to be a lich requires you to do some rather damnable things.

But in Lore? it was defiantly something that they hinted at in older editions.

[synnworld]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I have a question: "Is a non-evil Lich a possible thing? (in lore and if not, why)"

In Pathfinder lore, lichdom is achieved through callous disregard for life and involves mass murder of innocent life as part of your ascension. Moreover the process of becoming a lich extinguishes any qualms you might have about this, leaving you with a permanently evil alignment and no desire whatsoever to consider changing that. So it wouldn't be a meaningful question in Pathfinder to ask what would happen if you decided to be a non-evil lich, unless there were some sort of divine intervention that enabled you and you alone to break the rules (like there was with Arue on the flipside).

In D&D, on the other hand, lichdom isn't achieved through callous disregard for life and you don't necessarily have to hurt others to achieve it. D&D liches often do hate life, but there are examples of liches whose consciences grew over time as well as lich-like creatures such as the baelnorn who stand neutral or even benevolent vigil over living communities. So it would be possible in D&D to role-play a non-evil lich.

No hold up, while I don't know all of pf lore, but I remember hearing there were in fact not evil lights, just like I remember hearing about the "white necromancer's" who actually use necromancy to fight the undead, id have to go look this up again though.

[jsaving]

PF2e has a simple sentence that describes what happens once the lich-creating ritual is complete: "A lich gains the undead trait and becomes evil." PF1e details how you can become a lich and stipulates that when the process is complete, you permanently gain the undead type and become "any evil." Which doesn't rule out the existence of "lich-adjacent" creatures like the baelnorn that share some similarities to liches without being evil, though that wouldn't be relevant for Wrath since you are specifically being offered lichdom.

Oddly, 5th edition D&D is stricter about lich alignment requirements than past editions sometimes were, mandating that any lich must "periodically feed souls to its phylactery to sustain the magic preserving its body and consciousness... which are consumed and destroyed utterly." Hard to see how that could be squared with a nonevil alignment.

[Schlumpsha]

Originally posted by synnworld:

No hold up, while I don't know all of pf lore, but I remember hearing there were in fact not evil lights, just like I remember hearing about the "white necromancer's" who actually use necromancy to fight the undead, id have to go look this up again though.

White Necromancer is a third party base class created by Kobold Press for the Pathfinder ruleset. It isn't official content by Paizo. There is a reason why in Golarion Necromancy has so many spells with the Evil descriptor to them after all.

Can't speak about "evil lights" though. But any light that is too bright has clear bad intentions for harming a poor fellows eyesight. Darkness is so much more gentle in that regard.