Hunter

[Gorwe]

What's the point? Seems like such a waste of a party slot(and consequently, XP). It's strictly a worse Ranger. Those 2 Spell Levels? Yeah, not much there. But muh Sirocco! Yeah, ok, are you willing to trade +10 AB for a weaker Sirocco?

With that said, Colluding Scoundrel and Divine Hunter are ok. Nothing more imo.

(also, does Terrain Focus scale? If so, how? This is mainly a Forester issue, but could interest all the Ranger players seeing how I never actually got an option to increment already present Terrain bonus)

[seeker1]

My huntress Kate Bishop begs to disagree with you.

I like the animal aspects and teamwork feats they can share with their animal companion.

But you know me, I'm not about the stats.

[gmwaddington]

IMHO, the Divine Hound Hunter is awesome! Judgements (eventually Everlasting), a powerful pet to ride, free teamwork feats, and great animal companion buffing spells. Even good skills as a bonus. Very powerful in melee, in my experience.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by seeker1:

My huntress Kate Bishop begs to disagree with you.

I like the animal aspects and teamwork feats they can share with their animal companion.

But you know me, I'm not about the stats.

Yeah, once you start thinking about stats, even in the slightest, you'll realize. But I'm glad you have fun with it. My Trickster was FULL Freebooter and it was better than you'd think at first. Because Aru and Seelah exist. Add YARR! on top of it and ... yeah, was a very elegant physical playthrough! Too bad the Persuade 3 didn't work, but meh. The entire character was more an homage to ... Capn Jack than anything else(...because, ofc it would be ; you need someone so epic + drunk for Trickster to truly work). Was glad that it actually worked out rather nicely in the end.

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

IMHO, the Divine Hound Hunter is awesome! Judgements (eventually Everlasting), a powerful pet to ride, free teamwork feats, and great animal companion buffing spells. Even good skills as a bonus. Very powerful in melee, in my experience.

Huh, I thought that was Inquisitor's arch. You basically trade away random garbage in order to get actually awesome stuff. Too bad the choice of animals is ... lacking. Look, if it can take a Wolf, why can't it take a Leopard or a Smilodon? Imo, should be restricted to HOUND(read: a DOG) only. Otherwise it opens up loopholes. Because, what's the real difference between a Wolf and a Leopard / Smilo? If it's too exotic, well, what if a character is Mwangi or Linnorm / Mammoth Lord?

[Igg12]

Gorwe, wolf and dog companions are the best in combat, bully tripping build, divine hound, small pc race, that's a strong 1st level class character.

[gmwaddington]

The dog seems to me to be one of the best companions, especially at higher levels. They get a free trip attempt on all of their AoOs, and end up with great strength. Enemies trying to run past will often lose the rest of their turn as they end up on the ground.

[Igg12]

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

The dog seems to me to be one of the best companions, especially at higher levels. They get a free trip attempt on all of their AoOs, and end up with great strength. Enemies trying to run past will often lose the rest of their turn as they end up on the ground.

Especially with animal growth, spell which hunter has, along with barkskin, divine hound is very strong.

[Gorwe]

Will the trips continue to work properly in Act 4 and later? That's when I think Hunter could start to show its weaknesses: when the enemy numbers go out of control and most of its benefits get overwritten by items. Except Hound and dHunter, ofc.

It shouldn't be compared to Ranger though, that's a blatant categorical mistake. Even if comparing it to Magus and Warpriest, it's not exactly looking good outside of RP builds.

What am I not seeing? Trip builds, are they that good? Also, I associate Hunter with a Bow, but that is quite likely a trap.

[gmwaddington]

Originally posted by Lieutenant:

Gorwe, wolf and dog companions are the best in combat, bully tripping build, divine hound, small pc race, that's a strong 1st level class character.

I hired a halfling mercenary Divine Hound on my Hard Azata playthrough, who turned out to be my #1 damage dealer. She even bit Deskari for 100 points of damage (aided by Selah's Mark of Justice)!

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Also, I associate Hunter with a Bow, but that is quite likely a trap.

I found them best in melee. Outflank gives them an easy +4 to hit, and Tandem Trip let's the dog roll twice and take the best result. And Seize the Moment sets off critical hit AoOs.

[Igg12]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Will the trips continue to work properly in Act 4 and later? That's when I think Hunter could start to show its weaknesses: when the enemy numbers go out of control and most of its benefits get overwritten by items. Except Hound and dHunter, ofc.

It shouldn't be compared to Ranger though, that's a blatant categorical mistake. Even if comparing it to Magus and Warpriest, it's not exactly looking good outside of RP builds.

What am I not seeing? Trip builds, are they that good?

Trip builds with animal growth is crazy, it gives size bonuses to combat maneuvers, with teamwork feats focus on tripping, it too good.

[Igg12]

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

Originally posted by Lieutenant:

Gorwe, wolf and dog companions are the best in combat, bully tripping build, divine hound, small pc race, that's a strong 1st level class character.

I hired a halfling mercenary Divine Hound on my Hard Azata playthrough, who turned out to be my #1 damage dealer. She even bit Deskari for 100 points of damage (aided by Selah's Mark of Justice)!

I knew its was op, but that's crazy lol, did Deskari trip, i think he can, can he?

[gmwaddington]

Originally posted by Lieutenant:

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

I hired a halfling mercenary Divine Hound on my Hard Azata playthrough, who turned out to be my #1 damage dealer. She even bit Deskari for 100 points of damage (aided by Selah's Mark of Justice)!

I knew its was op, but that's crazy lol

Her dog died that round to a 600+ point scythe critical (Deskari also died the same round). After the battle, she used Raise Companion and the dog got better. :)

[Igg12]

v

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

Originally posted by Lieutenant:

I knew its was op, but that's crazy lol

Her dog died that round to a 600+ point scythe critical (Deskari also died the same round). After the battle, she used Raise Companion and the dog got better. :)

nice, btw can you trip the bastard, that would be insulting lol

[Gorwe]

Aha, I see. I know that this is going to be an extra dense comparison, but what it seems to excel at are Trips while you chop-chop. In this way it is actually quite like Path of Axeman White Lion.

I could recreate one of my Elves, but no portrait(or Mythic outside of Legend) fits. RIP!

Regardless, what about other, non divine Hunters? Forester, Urban, Colluding...even the base class. How are they?

[Igg12]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Aha, I see. I know that this is going to be an extra dense comparison, but what it seems to excel at are Trips while you chop-chop. In this way it is actually quite like Path of Axeman White Lion.

I could recreate one of my Elves, but no portrait(or Mythic outside of Legend) fits. RIP!

Regardless, what about other, non divine Hunters? Forester, Urban, Colluding...even the base class. How are they?

Wandering Marksman is your typical ranged character, no teamwork, animal companion gets morale to AC every 4 of your levels, you have to be 10 feet away, nothing special, still its a 6 level caster with some nice spell selection.
Forester, has no animal companion, but i can see him as a ranged char with high stealth check, that does camouflage and later hide in plain sight as a move action, then go with Vital and Improved Vital striking as a standard action, you get a tactician ability but its not very useful, except maybe shake it off teamwork feat.
Divine Hunter can be interesting, no teamwork but he has a domain, which i think can qualify him for the impossible domain selection, now in pnp you could take Deadeye's blessing if you are Erastilian, there is a mod, but i don't know if you are into that, still he also has access to celestial and fiendish template for his animal companion that allows for smiting, so smilodon or better Velociraptor (14 cha), its still pretty niche but different.
Others at least for me are pretty subpar, but maybe someone has a different opinion.

[lemurs2]

Gorwe, 6th level caster and a 4th level caster are not the same. If a Ranger never casts a spell you will not miss that aspect of your character. A 6th level caster is a real caster, do you think a Magus is not a caster because 6th level only?
Also I have no idea what you mean by +10Ab, at 20th level it would be ~4.