shortbow vs longbow

[Memnarch]

Why wouId anyone ever choose shortbow over Iongbow?

they onIy do 1d6 vs the Iongbows 1d8

AND they are 50ft vs the shortbow 40ft.

and theres no weapon speed mechanic.

Someone enIighten me.

[Conquista]

zen archer with a snap shot build removes all disadvantages of shortbows beside magical enhancements ingame

[Memnarch]

yeah I know, but Iann is good and I want Wenduag in my EviI pIaythrough

[L3wt]

It's not really why someone would choose shortbow over longbow, rather it's because there are classes/racial/feat restrictions for the weapons themselves. If you have the ability to use the one with higher damage roll then you would be unwise to choose the weaker of the two.

And if you're talking about companions or anyone you have no control over then it all boils down to how you are RP'ing with your main character.

[jutschi78]

Rogues and Bards can only use longbows by default, so they ate for them. Some shortbows have nice magical abilities

[rumpelstiltskin]

same for light/heavy crossbows. i guess it's a dnd thing - some weapons are just better, and it's probably supposed to be balanced by availability. for instance, at some point the game might troll you with a tantalizingly good shortbow (true story), so that you'd start thinking it might actually be worth it to invest in shorbow skills (it's not)

[Memnarch]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

same for light/heavy crossbows. i guess it's a dnd thing - some weapons are just better, and it's probably supposed to be balanced by availability. for instance, at some point the game might troll you with a very good shortbow (true story), so that you'd start thinking it might actually be worth it to invest in shorbow skills (it's not)

Thats exactIy my point too.

Paizo doesnt get to teII me how to pIay my game, just because theire awfuI at baIancing weapons.

Im so sick of Iongbows aIways and "going for a good shortbow in X area" is a trash argument.

sorry, not sorry.

Thats why i aIways wiII prefer Obsidians PoE2, they did a reaIIy good weapon baIance, some had Iow attackspeed, and others were sIower BUT with other reaIIy good benefis.

You faiIed again Paizo.

[L3wt]

Weapon speed etc. was removed after first revision. Almost everyone will agree with you the tabletop rules don't generally transfer well to CRPG especially when they are directly copy/pasted. But it's by the book so.. Keeps them happy.

[seeker1]

My followup question: unless you don't have the STR bonus, but let's say you did, why would you not always choose a Composite Longbow over a regular one?

No downside I can see. It seems an obvious "best choice" again unless you have low STR.

One final thing: it sure would make a lot more sense for Weapon Focus to be for weapon types instead of specifics, i.e. have Weapon Focus (Bow) instead of Weapon Focus (shortbow). You'd think somebody would do a mod for that. Oh yeah: they did!

If weapon speed were a thing in this game, it should be a reason to take a light crossbow, which fires faster and reloads quicker. Since it's not a thing, yeah, there's no real reason to prefer light to heavy, which does more damage.

Unless and until it does come to weighing enchantments.

BTW, removing weapon speed also removes one way in which lighter finesse weapons like rapiers and shortswords could be "preferred" to heavier bladed weapons, too.

[L3wt]

Originally posted by seeker1:

One final thing: it sure would make a lot more sense for Weapon Focus to be for weapon types instead of specifics, i.e. have Weapon Focus (Bow) instead of Weapon Focus (shortbow). You'd think somebody would do a mod for that. Oh yeah: they did!

It wouldn't really, because then Weapon Focus loses it's descriptor 'Focus'. Making a mod that generalises that feat is just saying "Hey, I feel there should be a feat everyone should be choosing the instant they make a character." Kinda useless imo.

[kirill-busidow]

Originally posted by Foori:

Why wouId anyone ever choose shortbow over Iongbow?

they onIy do 1d6 vs the Iongbows 1d8

AND they are 50ft vs the shortbow 40ft.

and theres no weapon speed mechanic.

Someone enIighten me.

Zen archer

+3 shortbow when longbows stay +2 for long time

Holy (!) speed shortbow in Dresden

[molgenbuckeye]

in the TTRPG longbows cant be used while mounted.

Originally posted by seeker1:

My followup question: unless you don't have the STR bonus, but let's say you did, why would you not always choose a Composite Longbow over a regular one?

You wouldnt. but a composite longbow costs more. and in the TTRPG you have to get one that matches your strength score, and the higher the strength the more expensive the bow.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by jutschi78:

Rogues and Bards can only use longbows by default, so they ate for them. Some shortbows have nice magical abilities

Pretty sure you meant that Rogues and Bards are only proficient in Shortbows. They would have to get a Feat from somewhere if they wanted to use Longbows.

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

same for light/heavy crossbows. i guess it's a dnd thing - some weapons are just better, and it's probably supposed to be balanced by availability. for instance, at some point the game might troll you with a tantalizingly good shortbow (true story), so that you'd start thinking it might actually be worth it to invest in shorbow skills (it's not)

Tho only reason my Nenio and Daeron aren't using Heavy Crossbows is because they are just that. Heavy. I gotta keep them in a light load and the Heavy kicks them over.

Originally posted by seeker1:

My followup question: unless you don't have the STR bonus, but let's say you did, why would you not always choose a Composite Longbow over a regular one?

You wouldn't. Composite is better. If your Str bonus is negative, you'd use a crossbow. That's just how it works.

Originally posted by seeker1:

If weapon speed were a thing in this game, it should be a reason to take a light crossbow, which fires faster and reloads quicker. Since it's not a thing, yeah, there's no real reason to prefer light to heavy, which does more damage.

Weapon speeds have never been a thing in DnD 3.0, 3.5, or Pathfinder 1E. The closest you have is reload speed. In PnP, a light crossbow (and hand crossbow and sling) takes a move action to reload, a heavy crossbow takes a full round action to reload, and long/shortbows don't take any actions to reload. This is why crossbows are simple weapons and long/shortbows are martial weapons. There are also additional feats to reduce the reload times.

Owlcat ignores reload time probably for simplicity. This isn't the worst decision.

Originally posted by molgenbuckeye:

You wouldnt. but a composite longbow costs more. and in the TTRPG you have to get one that matches your strength score, and the higher the strength the more expensive the bow.

Alternatively, you can get a low Str MW Comp Longbow and get it enchanted. After the initial +1 you can spend a flat 2000gp to add on the same effect we get in WotR. Variable Str composite bows.

[Cutlass Jack]

Also remember that even if Ember can use longbows, avoid giving her a composite one. Her negative strength means she gets a damage penalty with a composite bow.

But yeah the main use of shortbows in this game is for Lann when you have someone else in the group (mainly Arueshalae) using Longbows. Less competition for drops.

Originally posted by Foori:

yeah I know, but Iann is good and I want Wenduag in my EviI pIaythrough

Old post, but I found this funny. Lann isn't actually good...
After playing through a few times I'm even preferring Wendy in my good runs.

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by seeker1:

My followup question: unless you don't have the STR bonus, but let's say you did, why would you not always choose a Composite Longbow over a regular one?

In tabletop, composite bows are made for specific strength ratings. So you would have, for an example, a composite long bow Strength +2. So you can use the bow fine if you have a +2 strength bonus. If you bonus is higher, you can only apply 2 points towards the damage. If you strength bonus is LOWER you aren't strong enough to properly pull the bow and thus suffer a -2 on the attack rolls.

Originally posted by Foori:

Im so sick of Iongbows aIways and "going for a good shortbow in X area" is a trash argument.

Yeah, this isn't how tabletop games work, so don't blame Paizo. You don't "go for" a specific magic item in some portion of an adventure path since you have no knowledge of what magic items you are going to encounter (with some really specific exceptions). At the very best, you can either sell the magic items you don't have a use for and either try to find a merchant that has weapon you want or try to find someone to enchant one for you.

The reason why short bows have a lower damage base then long bows is a reflection of realism. Long bows have a longer draw, thus the arrows are typically longer and heavier. Combine that with the longer draw meaning they have a higher pull strength, the arrows have more force. Short bows would be more for horse mounted troops or a light hunting weapon.

[ajfusch]

I don't see a "fail" here. if anybody could use any weapons, what would be the use of classes like the Fighter for example?
The classes that don't have access to martial weapons have other strenghts. And if you really want to you can take the feat to use them.

The whole system is way more flexible than the D&D beginnings, where a wizard could only use a dagger or quarterstaff, and that was it. Nevermind that they were bad at using weapons anway, which you still have.
It's gotten more flexible over time, with PE1 being flexible enough for my tastes.