What's with all the companions that can't wear armor?

[Knightmage Bael]

between Lann, Ember, Woljif and Nenia, a lot of these companions are really hurting for AC.

I'm level 6 and they some really low ACs. Especially Ember and Nenia who have an AC of 12 and get hyper targeted. In fact the AI just takes AoO and goes through my entire party to get at them, and because my roll RNG is really bad, I miss all the AoO, the enemy gets into my backline, and kills them easily with consistently high rolls.

Lann has higher AC though so he's harder to hit, but with +14 base attack bonuses on mobs its still not really enough. They all have high attack bonuses, and I don't have enough equipment I can buy to improve AC.

The entire equipment inventory is completely and utterly barren. no necklaces, belts, rings, boots, or gloves anywhere.

So basically might as well not take Ember or Nenia around at all because they die before they can get any attacks off. Especially Nenia. Her hexes never hit at all, and her ice cantrip does like 3 damage. Using spells or scrolls only does like 12 damage or so per hit to enemies with like 70 HP. I have more success with tanks and rogues with Lann in the back than I do actually using any spellcasters.

I'd love to use spell casters, but my issues with spellcasters right now are :

-Their AC is low and they get hyper focused by the entire mob
-They never overcome spell reisistance
-they have too few charges to do meaningful damage during long drawn out fights
-enemy always (and I mean always) pass the DC checks with consistent 16+ dice rolls


So yeah, I'd love to use these characters I'm constantly hearing about how utterly broken Nenia and Ember are, but so far all they've done is drag me down.

I had to build Camellia into a pseudo-healer/buffer from the recommended hexer build just to add some survivability. Having a hard time finding ways to increase AC to meaningful levels.

Taking dodge for +1 AC wont cut it. I need at least 10 more AC on these characters. Might as well take some light armor proficiency for the spellcasters....

[Slappy White]

the gear situation improves a bit as you get into the game. Lv 6 is still very early, you wont' have everyone's gear slots filled up that quick. get bracers and rings on those with low ac, and keep boosting their dex, that will raise ac and you can take dodge feats. good luck

[King Brick]

If you wanna put armor on Woljif, you put a Haramaki on him. You don't waste a feat on Light Armor Proficiency - that feat slot is better used on LITERALLY anything else. Yes, they're rarer to come by, but it doesn't matter. Light armor does not increase Woljif's survivability except for maybe at low levels, but becomes quickly obsolete.

Hell, taking 1 level of regular Rogue (or any other class that grants Light Armor Proficiency) would be more beneficial and less gimpy than taking an Armor Proficiency feat. Might as well take Iron Will at Level 1 too for someone who's Will Save starts at negative for all the good it will do.

If you wasted a feat on Light Armor Proficiency, then what I can tell you for a fact is the game's default build for Woljif is already better than yours will ever be - thematically or otherwise.

[seeker1]

I think people should play the game the way they enjoy it. In whatever modes, styles, difficulty settings, or methods they enjoy, including mods.

Thematically, I played spellcasting rogues in many earlier versions of these systems, and they wore leather armor. I know spell failure is a thing in this system, I deal with it, as is the DEX penalty, likewise.

Haramakis seem designed for monks. Yes, rogues can wear them, but then don't argue this is thematic consistency.

Some want minmaxing, some want logic and sense to systems. I think the rule system is in a strange place if a character without armor has a higher "armor" class than one that doesn't.

Maybe I used Toybox to take an extra feat. Nothing wasted then eh? And nobody's bizness but mine. Advice is fine. Mine is, it's your game, and play it the way you like.

... nuff said. And cheers.

[corisai]

Автор сообщения: seeker1

Maybe I used Toybox to take an extra feat. Nothing wasted then eh? And nobody's bizness but mine. Advice is fine. Mine is, it's your game, and play it the way you like.

Then why you came to suggest "waste a feat (very limited resource for rogues) on useless crap" and "forget" to mention that you'd cheated that feat?
This topic is not about roleplaying - it's a question how to boost AC. Not even mention that cheating (while it could be fun, true) is NOT related to role-playing at all.

Автор сообщения: seeker1

I think the rule system is in a strange place if a character without armor has a higher "armor" class than one that doesn't.

It's absolultely logical - armor isn't going to save you from being hit by a huge creature. And most of late enemies in game are Large+ size.

[Aliceskysareblue]

Автор сообщения: King Brick

If you wanna put armor on Woljif, you put a Haramaki on him. You don't waste a feat on Light Armor Proficiency - that feat slot is better used on LITERALLY anything else. Yes, they're rarer to come by, but it doesn't matter. Light armor does not increase Woljif's survivability except for maybe at low levels, but becomes quickly obsolete.

Hell, taking 1 level of regular Rogue (or any other class that grants Light Armor Proficiency) would be more beneficial and less gimpy than taking an Armor Proficiency feat. Might as well take Iron Will at Level 1 too for someone who's Will Save starts at negative for all the good it will do.

If you wasted a feat on Light Armor Proficiency, then what I can tell you for a fact is the game's default build for Woljif is already better than yours will ever be - thematically or otherwise.

the only atmor I put on was the magic vestmant from act 4 but thats more do to the spell resistance, he has pretty low will saves

[seeker1]

You are entitled to your POV, msr.

Mine is that AC in this game is a silly abstraction. Representing two different things combined in one stat. a) the protective value of your armor and b) you ACTUALLY being able to dodge, parry, block, or otherwise avoid an attack. Are you really "missing" a dragon every time you swing and "miss" - or is its scales blocking the blow?

The game calls that a "miss" (if you don't get through its "AC") but it isn't really. So we start there.

Also, the OP did not ask "how best do I raise AC". He asked "why can't they wear armor". Several other people besides me pointed out they can. Lann can wear a haramaki (we all seem to agree on that), Ember & Nenio can wear robes (those do go in the armor slot), and Woljif CAN wear light armor. Also that there are penalties, and there are mitigations, and yes it could use up a limited feat. I leave the "should" stuff to other people who seem to enjoy telling other people how they "should" play. Generally, I don't do that.

I also don't think customizing your game to work logically is necessarily cheating, but then I also don't think you can cheat in a single player game. But we've had that argument, too. You are welcome to view both the underlying rules and their implementation in this game as perfectly done and sensible. They are not from my POV, and that's even before we get to bugs.

P.S. Areelu is the same size as my MC. As are many enemies in Act 5, BTW.

Cheers.

[Knightmage Bael]

Автор сообщения: seeker1

You are entitled to your POV, msr.

Mine is that AC in this game is a silly abstraction. Representing two different things combined in one stat. a) the protective value of your armor and b) you ACTUALLY being able to dodge, parry, block, or otherwise avoid an attack. Are you really "missing" a dragon every time you swing and "miss" - or is its scales blocking the blow?

The game calls that a "miss" (if you don't get through its "AC") but it isn't really. So we start there.

Also, the OP did not ask "how best do I raise AC". He asked "why can't they wear armor". Several other people besides me pointed out they can. Lann can wear a haramaki (we all seem to agree on that), Ember & Nenio can wear robes (those do go in the armor slot), and Woljif CAN wear light armor. Also that there are penalties, and there are mitigations, and yes it could use up a limited feat. I leave the "should" stuff to other people who seem to enjoy telling other people how they "should" play. Generally, I don't do that.

I also don't think customizing your game to work logically is necessarily cheating, but then I also don't think you can cheat in a single player game. But we've had that argument, too. You are welcome to view both the underlying rules and their implementation in this game as perfectly done and sensible. They are not from my POV, and that's even before we get to bugs.

P.S. Areelu is the same size as my MC. As are many enemies in Act 5, BTW.

Cheers.

Ah nice, thanks. I've heard that some robes and other equipment in late game give some significant dex bonuses (and resistances. Isn't there one that increases DR by 15 or 20 points to every element? LOL).

Now i'll need to figure out which abilities are the most useful to take to increase survivability. Lann is considered a monk, right? Zen archers are monks? So the monk robes and what not will benefit him, along with other related feats?

Also should I just dip into vivisectionist for the mutagens on every single character? XD

[corisai]

Автор сообщения: seeker1

I also don't think customizing your game to work logically is necessarily cheating, but then I also don't think you can cheat in a single player game.

You're using a third-party hack to alter your game - this is by definition a cheating.

Автор сообщения: Archmage_Bael

Ah nice, thanks. I've heard that some robes and other equipment in late game give some significant dex bonuses (and resistances. Isn't there one that increases DR by 15 or 20 points to every element? LOL).

No, Dex bonuses are usually from belts. Resistance to energy on itmes is a worthless past early game - as it's easy to buff it (and you usually should have such buffs).
There is very few good armors, mostly they're in "meh" grade. Yes, one medium armor with nice bonuses to caster damage, but medium = arcane spell failure chance. So it would require a lot of investments to make worth it.

In same time there is a several powerful robes for spellcasters.

Автор сообщения: Archmage_Bael

Lann is considered a monk, right? Zen archers are monks? So the monk robes and what not will benefit him, along with other related feats?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Take in mind - if he's using a bow then he would NOT receive anything from feats boosting unarmed damage or attacks.

Автор сообщения: Archmage_Bael

Also should I just dip into vivisectionist for the mutagens on every single character? XD

Mutagens alone do not worth it. Together with sneak attack - it's a fine 1 level dip for melee classes. Depend on your class - for some it's a viable choice, for some - better to max it.

[seeker1]

Автор сообщения: corisai

You're using a third-party hack to alter your game - this is by definition a cheating.

You are entitled to that view. Seems to me to presume the game is perfectly designed, balanced, and implemented.

Some people are using Toybox to make the game HARDER. It actually can enable a Brutal Unfair mode that appears to exist in-game but not be offered to the player.

Is that cheating?

In general, I think you can only cheat when you are playing against other players, and do things to make the contest unfair.

Of course, as I've said, I don't think one "wins" or "beats" a CRPG either - they reach an ending.

[seeker1]

Now i'll need to figure out which abilities are the most useful to take to increase survivability. Lann is considered a monk, right? Zen archers are monks? So the monk robes and what not will benefit him, along with other related feats?

Zen archers are an archetype of monk, yep. One I never saw before till I got into Wrath, but I know this now. The monks I used to play, even back in NWN, mostly did kung fu. If they were doing ranged attacks, it was usually with shuriken - don't exist in this game.

There are monk robes, they are usually alignment restricted.

As c. said, a lot of monk abilities won't benefit Lann's bow shots if you keep him as Zen Archer. (Of course, to make him a non-Zen Archer requires the respec mod.)

[Knightmage Bael]

Автор сообщения: seeker1

Now i'll need to figure out which abilities are the most useful to take to increase survivability. Lann is considered a monk, right? Zen archers are monks? So the monk robes and what not will benefit him, along with other related feats?

I have familiarity with the basic classes. I mean the BASIC ones, Paladin, generic fighter, ranger, rogue, cleric, sorcerer, etc. Classes I'm familiar with from Diablo type games I played as a kid (and KOTOR I)

I actually get confused between sorcerer and wizard, I just hear that wizard is basically a weaker version of sorcerer so I never pick it.

Then there are all the subtypes. Like Oracle is like a divine cleric, or so I hear, but how does that make them different from a normal cleric? Alchemist confuses me because it sounds really expensive and micro-manage-y to constantly make new potions, buy ingredients with all the money you get, and be hampered by a certain number of attacks and consumables per day, and then there's Vivisectionist. The only thing I understand about that is that it has the mutagen. Most of the classes use terminology, and have different attack based resources (like "ki"?) that just confuse me.

I have some friends who know the game inside and out to the point where they can dip into all these different classes and subclasses with convoluted and complicated builds to exploit the mechanics in such a way to not need to take a full class to level 20 to get OP characters.

I feel like that sort of expertise comes only from years and years worth of tabletop sessions and experimentation. I don't go beyond the main classes, so I'm not really there. Especially if you do something like a melee/magic build with two different damage attributes needing very specific feats and spell combinations to actually work as intended.

[seeker1]

Автор сообщения: Archmage_Bael

I actually get confused between sorcerer and wizard, I just hear that wizard is basically a weaker version of sorcerer so I never pick it.

So I can tell you this: check out the Fextralife WotR Guide. It is a good guide to all the base classes, and even most of the archetypes are described correctly. Also, there's a Pathfinder (Paizo) Wiki, too.

Short answer: wizards use Vancian (memorization per day) casting, sorcerors use spontaneous casting. So any spell they know can be cast x times per day, spontaneously.

There are other differences, but start there.

Then there are all the subtypes. Like Oracle is like a divine cleric, or so I hear, but how does that make them different from a normal cleric?

It's complicated, but to again simplify, oracles are divine casters and notably this means they can wear armor without spell failure. But their mix of spells are a mix of divine (clerical) and arcane (magelike).

Alchemist confuses me because it sounds really expensive and micro-manage-y to constantly make new potions,

I love that class. They can Brew Potions, but in theory, so can anybody. They have mutagens and some "spells" that I guess are really magic elixirs.

The main thing they do is bomb. Bomb bomb bomb. Lots of kinds of bombs. I like my merc Sharky McBomber because he seems very good at wiping out stuff without an overarching amount of micromanagement, and that to me is a good thing. And he has the specialized bombs when I need them.

[Knightmage Bael]

I feel like you'd run out of potions being an alchemist.

[corisai]

Автор сообщения: Archmage_Bael

I feel like you'd run out of potions being an alchemist.

In this game alchemist using "charges" for his abilities. No need to brew actual potions (but you can to boost party more).

[King Brick]

Автор сообщения: seeker1

I think people should play the game the way they enjoy it. In whatever modes, styles, difficulty settings, or methods they enjoy, including mods.

Thematically, I played spellcasting rogues in many earlier versions of these systems, and they wore leather armor. I know spell failure is a thing in this system, I deal with it, as is the DEX penalty, likewise.

Haramakis seem designed for monks. Yes, rogues can wear them, but then don't argue this is thematic consistency.

Some want minmaxing, some want logic and sense to systems. I think the rule system is in a strange place if a character without armor has a higher "armor" class than one that doesn't.

Maybe I used Toybox to take an extra feat. Nothing wasted then eh? And nobody's bizness but mine. Advice is fine. Mine is, it's your game, and play it the way you like.

... nuff said. And cheers.

Haramakis aren't DESIGNED for any class in particular otherwise there would be a class restriction on equipping them or a proficiency feat.

Автор сообщения: seeker1

You are entitled to your POV, msr.

Mine is that AC in this game is a silly abstraction. Representing two different things combined in one stat. a) the protective value of your armor and b) you ACTUALLY being able to dodge, parry, block, or otherwise avoid an attack. Are you really "missing" a dragon every time you swing and "miss" - or is its scales blocking the blow?

The game calls that a "miss" (if you don't get through its "AC") but it isn't really. So we start there.

Also, the OP did not ask "how best do I raise AC". He asked "why can't they wear armor". Several other people besides me pointed out they can. Lann can wear a haramaki (we all seem to agree on that), Ember & Nenio can wear robes (those do go in the armor slot), and Woljif CAN wear light armor. Also that there are penalties, and there are mitigations, and yes it could use up a limited feat. I leave the "should" stuff to other people who seem to enjoy telling other people how they "should" play. Generally, I don't do that.

I also don't think customizing your game to work logically is necessarily cheating, but then I also don't think you can cheat in a single player game. But we've had that argument, too. You are welcome to view both the underlying rules and their implementation in this game as perfectly done and sensible. They are not from my POV, and that's even before we get to bugs.

P.S. Areelu is the same size as my MC. As are many enemies in Act 5, BTW.

Cheers.

AC isn't a silly abstraction. It's based Dungeons and Dragons. It's how AC has worked for decades. Stop thinking and/or pretending to yourself Woljif is a regular Rogue. He's not. Not unless you take 1 level of regular Rogue.

It's not that there are correct and incorrect ways to play this game. It's that there is efficient and inefficient ways to accomplish what you want. There is nothing wrong with wanting a spellcasting sneak attacker/lockpicker who wears armor. You're just going at it the most inefficient way. Shadow Shaman and Cult Leader are just flat out better classes for that, as well as others. Arcane Trickster is probably the absolute BEST way.

Wasting a feat on Light Armor Proficiency is the same energy as those who microwave frozen chicken nuggets. Yeah, technically, you can - it's safe to eat, but it's inefficient and disgusting. Putting them in the oven (or an air fryer) is just better. Getting access to light armor via any other route is just better all around.