Banishment / Dismissal

[Gorwe]

How does this Abjuration magic interact with Demons? What if I cast it on a random Glabrezu(or what have you) in Alushin? Does it work vs Mythic Demons? How about bosses?

It was my understanding that it was working only vs summons, but given that Demons ARE Outsiders and thus most likely Extraplanar(except in Act 4 maybe)...does it work like it reads it should?

[Frostfeather]

I'm doing a Dismissal/Banishment Azata Oracle run (partly for Favorable Magic) and it works as instant death for demons/outsiders before act 4. Eligible bosses can be killed with it too. In act 4, apparently it does not work, but I am using the Tabletop Tweaks mod so I'm not 100% sure how it works in an unmodded game.

Some enemies like the salamanders in Blackwater also can't be affected. You should always have a backup plan or two... mine are Zippy Magic rays and chain lightning.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by night4:

I'm doing a Dismissal/Banishment Azata Oracle run (partly for Favorable Magic) and it works as instant death for demons/outsiders regardless of where you are. Eligible bosses can be killed with it too.

Some enemies like the salamanders in Blackwater can't be affected though. You should always have a backup plan or two... mine are Zippy Magic rays and chain lightning.

What? Have you actually tried it in Act 4?

[seeker1]

Except oddly it shouldn't be insta-killing ... it should be making them vanish and disappear ... no? Because except in Act 4 where I would THINK it doesn't work .. it's forcing them to leave the material plane.

I was always reluctant to try it, as the similar spell in BG2 basically made demons or extraplanars vanish, which meant no looting or XP, either. Minor things if it was a minor kill, guess it might matter on an outsider boss ...

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Except oddly it shouldn't be insta-killing ... it should be making them vanish and disappear ... no? Because except in Act 4 where I would THINK it doesn't work .. it's forcing them to leave the material plane.

I was always reluctant to try it, as the similar spell in BG2 basically made demons or extraplanars vanish, which meant no looting or XP, either. Minor things if it was a minor kill, guess it might matter on an outsider boss ...

Yes, this is an interesting question. Because if it works like a Demon Finger, that could completely change my opinion about Disenchanter. Insta kill Act 2 optional boss for tons of xp? Why not? While still being quite a powerful fighter. With 24h buffs. And up to +5 saves for everyone. And tons of saves himself.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

What? Have you actually tried it in Act 4?

I'm shortly before Act 4. I was partly going by what has been reported here in the past, that it does work there... but that was a month or more ago so could have changed.

If it doesn't work there now, I guess I'll just respec.

From what I've seen so far, though, it seems to just kill enemies you can cast it on. They fall over dead like when you use Phantasmal Killer or something and I don't think I've missed out on any loot.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

What? Have you actually tried it in Act 4?

I'm shortly before Act 4. I was partly going by what has been reported here in the past, that it does work there... but that was a month or more ago so could have changed.

If it doesn't work there now, I guess I'll just respec.

From what I've seen so far, though, it seems to just kill enemies you can cast it on. They fall over dead like when you use Phantasmal Killer or something and I don't think I've missed out on any loot.

If it truly does work in A4, that...omg the Disenchanter!

Edit: Have a link about A4 and Banishment? I'm keen on knowing this(shouldn't work there and it's simple to facilitate: just remove "extraplanar" feat / type or what have you).

[seeker1]

Bug? Feature? Intended or unintended?

All I can say is, according to the description of the spell, creatures are forced back to their home plane. SHOULD mean no corpse. Shouldn't work in Act 4 ... the demons are already ON their home plane.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

If it truly does work in A4, that...omg the Disenchanter!

Edit: Have a link about A4 and Banishment? I'm keen on knowing this(shouldn't work there and it's simple to facilitate: just remove "extraplanar" feat / type or what have you).

Ok. So this random guy claimed it worked ( https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/4577340984555856108/ ) and I swear I saw it somewhere else, too.

But I did finally try it in act 4 on a demon and the ones I tested it on so far do not have the Extraplanar subtype, as you'd expect... so it doesn't work there. So either these people were mistaken, or Owlcat fixed it. Not shocked either way.

Full disclosure: I am using Tabletop Tweaks, but I don't see anything in the options that would lead me to believe the mod "fixed" the demons' subtype. But I can't be 100% sure. Also, I haven't tested it extensively yet, maybe some demons are flagged correctly and others aren't.

So I guess my Azata is respeccing out of Expanded Arsenal Abjuration for now, lol.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

If it truly does work in A4, that...omg the Disenchanter!

Edit: Have a link about A4 and Banishment? I'm keen on knowing this(shouldn't work there and it's simple to facilitate: just remove "extraplanar" feat / type or what have you).

Ok. So this random guy claimed it worked ( https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/4577340984555856108/ ) and I swear I saw it somewhere else, too.

But I did finally try it in act 4 on a demon and the ones I tested it on so far do not have the Extraplanar subtype, as you'd expect... so it doesn't work there. So either these people were mistaken, or Owlcat fixed it. Not shocked either way.

Full disclosure: I am using Tabletop Tweaks, but I don't see anything in the options that would lead me to believe the mod "fixed" the demons' subtype. But I can't be 100% sure. Also, I haven't tested it extensively yet, maybe some demons are flagged correctly and others aren't.

So I guess my Azata is respeccing out of Expanded Arsenal Abjuration for now, lol.

Keep it updated please. I think them not having Extraplanar is by feature. Because they are NOT extraplanar there. YOU are though. So, technically, you should KO yourself in A4 with Bani.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Keep it updated please. I think them not having Extraplanar is by feature. Because they are NOT extraplanar there. YOU are though. So, technically, you should KO yourself in A4 with Bani.

It doesn't work on party members for the same reason, "target has no extraplanar subtype".

But interestingly, demons still have "Extraplanar Subtype" in act 4 under "Features and Abilities" if you inspect them. Apparently it's suppressed somehow.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Keep it updated please. I think them not having Extraplanar is by feature. Because they are NOT extraplanar there. YOU are though. So, technically, you should KO yourself in A4 with Bani.

It doesn't work on party members for the same reason, "target has no extraplanar subtype".

But interestingly, demons still have "Extraplanar Subtype" in act 4 under "Features and Abilities" if you inspect them. Apparently it's suppressed somehow.

Huh? Then it is a bug. If they have "Extraplanar", then it should work. Wonder what could be interfering. Care to post a screenshot of few A4 Demons' stat sheets? I wonder why it don't work if all the criteria is met.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Huh? Then it is a bug. If they have "Extraplanar", then it should work. Wonder what could be interfering. Care to post a screenshot of few A4 Demons' stat sheets? I wonder why it don't work if all the criteria is met.

https://imgur.com/FXqd0Jn

https://imgur.com/V7qg60w

It's the same for all of them. They clearly have the Extraplanar Subtype, but Dismissal/Banishment don't work on them.

I was doing this testing with my Angel character, but I don't think that should make a difference. It'll take me some time to do more testing with it with both characters and everything but I'll post again if I find anything new or interesting.

[Memnarch]

Originally posted by night4:

I'm doing a Dismissal/Banishment Azata Oracle run (partly for Favorable Magic) and it works as instant death for demons/outsiders before act 4. Eligible bosses can be killed with it too. In act 4, apparently it does not work, but I am using the Tabletop Tweaks mod so I'm not 100% sure how it works in an unmodded game.

Some enemies like the salamanders in Blackwater also can't be affected. You should always have a backup plan or two... mine are Zippy Magic rays and chain lightning.

Ofcoure Banishment doesnt work in entire Act 4 when you're aIready in The Abyss.....

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Foori:

Ofcoure Banishment doesnt work in entire Act 4 when you're aIready in The Abyss.....

It was reported to work there a month or so ago. Not really surprising given how buggy the game was/is.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Foori:

Ofcoure Banishment doesnt work in entire Act 4 when you're aIready in The Abyss.....

It was reported to work there a month or so ago. Not really surprising given how buggy the game was/is.

If they still have the Extraplanar feat, this version is the bugged one. I know it's their home turf, but Read As Written...none of these implementations is the correct one. But if Read As in Game, as long as they have Extraplanar, it should work. Though there is this bit about "its proper plane". Think TECHNICALLY / LIKE A COMPUTER(not like a scholar or what have you) now. What could this refer to? Could this refer to Terrain lol?

I think that as long as the Terrain == Abyss, Extraplanar on Demons should get removed. So, that's a bug. But! As long as they HAVE Extraplanar, mechanically speaking Banish should work. So, that's another bug. So, a bug that caused wrong interraction is now bugged too. What. The. ♥♥♥♥! (at this moment, I'd just go and remove Extraplanar from all Demon enemies in A4 BY HAND lol - everything else is simply digging yourself deeper)