Inspire Courage replacements

[luisedgm]

Which other classes/archetypes give the party +4 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls? I feel forced to have a bard every time because of this.

[Gorwe]

Sensei Monk and Martyr Paladin. Also Freebooter Ranger can have a similar effect on the outcome. As can Demonslayer Ranger with Nature Bond - Companions. Judge Inquisitor is approx there as well, especially with Glory or Community Domains.

[Nismu]

barbarian/skald lethal stance

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by Nismu:

barbarian/skald lethal stance

I think lethal stance only gives attack bonuses, not attack and damages bonuses like inspire courage does.

[luisedgm]

attack bonus is the most important, skald sure is a beast, but still too bard-like for what i want

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by luisedgm:

attack bonus is the most important, skald sure is a beast, but still too bard-like for what i want

What about my suggestions?

[luisedgm]

Those are not Inspire Courage replacements, those are still Inspire Courage in different classes

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by luisedgm:

Those are not Inspire Courage replacements, those are still Inspire Courage in different classes

Aha, I misunderstood. You don't want Inspire Courage at all? Why?

Regardless, those Rangers are some choices. Demonslayer should work given that most things are outsiders(demons) and Freebooter is inherently a more support Ranger. Judge is also quite useful as a support, but actually suffers from poorly thought out action economy(=too many swift actions lol). Imo. None of those are Inspire Courage.

[Frostfeather]

The most obvious would be stacking Evil Eyes, one from Shaman and one from Witch/Hexcrafter/Sylvan Trickster. Magnetic Infusion is also pretty great because you can get it early and it's -4 at that point, no waiting for it to improve.

And there are all kinds of +2 bonuses you can probably fit into your group one way or another, like Incense Synthesizer bonuses, Cauldron Witch bonuses, Foretell, Entangle, curse spells, etc etc. Many don't get a damage bonus, but have some other kind of advantage like getting it earlier.

[jsaving]

Mark of justice and inspire courage are the game's best party-wide boosters and you can use both at the same time. Wanting to "replace" either of them because you are "forced" to carry a party member who has them is very strange, along the lines of being "forced" to carry a kineticist because they can continually knock foes to the ground. Even better, both mark of justice and inspire courage work with freebooter's bane, and you would generally want to be using all three.

[corisai]

Originally posted by luisedgm:

Those are not Inspire Courage replacements, those are still Inspire Courage in different classes

Then you have only two options:
a) True Strike spell and Vital Strike build (lol, but is an option indeed).
b) Reduce game difficulty probably up to Easy.

[kirill-busidow]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Mark of justice and inspire courage are the game's best party-wide boosters and you can use both at the same time. Wanting to "replace" either of them because you are "forced" to carry a party member who has them is very strange, along the lines of being "forced" to carry a kineticist because they can continually knock foes to the ground. Even better, both mark of justice and inspire courage work with freebooter's bane, and you would generally want to be using all three.

Inspire courage is meh, only +4, not that much.

[GunStarX]

Originally posted by kirill-busidow:

Originally posted by jsaving:

Mark of justice and inspire courage are the game's best party-wide boosters and you can use both at the same time. Wanting to "replace" either of them because you are "forced" to carry a party member who has them is very strange, along the lines of being "forced" to carry a kineticist because they can continually knock foes to the ground. Even better, both mark of justice and inspire courage work with freebooter's bane, and you would generally want to be using all three.

Inspire courage is meh, only +4, not that much.

It's a lot better early game +2 bonus at level 5. Not getting +4 until level 17 is definitely meh for this game. Should have gave a mythic ability to increase the bonus by +1 per 4 mythic ranks or something so it scales better.

[Player#2201]

I used to think a bard was necessary in Kingmaker but you find other bonuses to make up for it, same with this. Miscellaneous competence and untyped buffs are scattered throughout and you won't miss the +4, even on core. Bards are still a good class, but there are plenty of damage dealers that will make up the loss of a single party buff.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Player#2201:

I used to think a bard was necessary in Kingmaker but you find other bonuses to make up for it, same with this. Miscellaneous competence and untyped buffs are scattered throughout and you won't miss the +4, even on core. Bards are still a good class, but there are plenty of damage dealers that will make up the loss of a single party buff.

Besides, Skalds are better in practice. Bards...meh. Even as a skill monkey, they aren't that great. But they are "versatile", for sure. But what can a Bard do that a Horn Herald can't do, realistically, better? Plus, HH is so wonderfully customizable, Bard's so static. If only Lingering Songs stacked or something. Because outside of stacking Songs, Bard's actually quite meh.

And as a skill monkey? So many other, better choices.

[kirill-busidow]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Originally posted by kirill-busidow:

Inspire courage is meh, only +4, not that much.

It's a lot better early game +2 bonus at level 5. Not getting +4 until level 17 is definitely meh for this game. Should have gave a mythic ability to increase the bonus by +1 per 4 mythic ranks or something so it scales better.

And than you are either go full bard and get meh class or waste 5 levels for this +2 bonus, thus hurting companion.

Unless you play with respec, this means easy difficulty, but if you play on easy difficuly do you really need +4 from bard?