Class Review

[Gorwe]

I know, I know. There's only so many things that could influence how you see these, but these are some of my comments. I'll devote a single post for a single class. Ok? Onwards with it!

[Conquista]

if i remember right hellknights also have no access to impossible domain

the description of impossible domain does not really fit druid, they don't gain their powers from a deity but from their connection to nature

[ZeroDivide]

引用自 Gorwe：

KINETICIST: I've never actually given this one a try. I mean, it is cool and all, but it just seems out of place most of time. That's because it's literally Avatar: The Last Airbender stuff. Like magical Monks shaping elements. Now, the base Kine seems the most versatile of the bunch. So, there's actually a reason to pick it up. Which is not something a lot of classes can say.

I find the Kineticist oddly powerful in the pathfinder system. Its flavor kinda sucks at first glance, as its the Paizo version of the Warlock (which wotc didnt put in the ogl) like you said with air bender instead of a dark patron feel. Like the warlock its essentially a mostly ranged Rogue that gives up multi-attacks to get access to AOE-sneak attacks, and has the 'option' to focus on an enemies Touch AC (which is super handy with how crazy this game loves to pump up enemy AC)

Their flavor makes a whole lot more sense in the system when you realize that instead of having outer plane warlock patrons they have an innate sorcerer style connection to the Inner Planes and that Oread's (and other Geniekin) are pretty much just Inner Plane Tiefling/Assimar

[corisai]

引用自 GunStarX：

Tabletop rules are either different than wotr (likely), or the tweaks mod is flat out wrong for the restriction

It's working correctly in TT mod.

Bloodranger "Blood Rage" ability description from table-top:

Bloodrage counts as the barbarian’s rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects.

But we also using archetype "Primalist" and here we get a hit:

This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements. This ability alters the bloodline class feature.

So primalist (and only his!) blood rage power is NOT equal to barbarian rage power for feats & requirements (but still affected by magic items & spell effects like a rage & he still have "barbarian" basic rage ability - just a no powers).

[Gorwe]

引用自 ZeroDivide：

引用自 Gorwe：

KINETICIST: I've never actually given this one a try. I mean, it is cool and all, but it just seems out of place most of time. That's because it's literally Avatar: The Last Airbender stuff. Like magical Monks shaping elements. Now, the base Kine seems the most versatile of the bunch. So, there's actually a reason to pick it up. Which is not something a lot of classes can say.

I find the Kineticist oddly powerful in the pathfinder system. Its flavor kinda sucks at first glance, as its the Paizo version of the Warlock (which wotc didnt put in the ogl) like you said with air bender instead of a dark patron feel. Like the warlock its essentially a mostly ranged Rogue that gives up multi-attacks to get access to AOE-sneak attacks, and has the 'option' to focus on an enemies Touch AC (which is super handy with how crazy this game loves to pump up enemy AC)

Their flavor makes a whole lot more sense in the system when you realize that instead of having outer plane warlock patrons they have an innate sorcerer style connection to the Inner Planes and that Oread's (and other Geniekin) are pretty much just Inner Plane Tiefling/Assimar

Yes, Kine is very cool and I really liked Warlock in NWN 2. Kinda wish there were more Geniekind. Like that sexykind, what's their name...Janni? But yeah. Which Mythic would even fit a Kine? Lich for Dark Ele and Demon for Psychokine? What would an OS be? Aeon, Dragon? Just as a note, my favorite is OS, followed by BK, but BK isn't working.

[GunStarX]

引用自 76561198038797844：

引用自 GunStarX：

Tabletop rules are either different than wotr (likely), or the tweaks mod is flat out wrong for the restriction

It's working correctly in TT mod.

Bloodranger "Blood Rage" ability description from table-top:

Bloodrage counts as the barbarian’s rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects.

But we also using archetype "Primalist" and here we get a hit:

This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements. This ability alters the bloodline class feature.

So primalist (and only his!) blood rage power is NOT equal to barbarian rage power for feats & requirements (but still affected by magic items & spell effects like a rage & he still have "barbarian" basic rage ability - just a no powers).

You're right it does say that under primal powers only. So confusing

[Gorwe]

引用自 GunStarX：

引用自 76561198038797844：

It's working correctly in TT mod.

Bloodranger "Blood Rage" ability description from table-top:


But we also using archetype "Primalist" and here we get a hit:


So primalist (and only his!) blood rage power is NOT equal to barbarian rage power for feats & requirements (but still affected by magic items & spell effects like a rage & he still have "barbarian" basic rage ability - just a no powers).

You're right it does say that under primal powers only. So confusing

Primal Powers? Is that the "PP" feat on a red background that Primalist gets on lvl 1? It's blank for me, I suspected it had something to do with that.

As for confusing, I never quite understood what's so special about Hospitaler until I tried it. Then I read it. Then I became angry. Can't they just rename Hosp's Lay? So people don't need to lawyer it lol. This also goes somewhat for Witch Doc.

[Mesond]

Been playing as a dragon disciple. Despite not getting the gold dragon speeches in chapter 5 (if you don't pick it) you can still turn into a gold dragon. Though I don't know if it's the same kind of gold dragon.

Basically, is the dragon desciple/sorceror dragon form as powerful as the mytheic gold dragon form? Is the "mythic form" any different/more powerful or are they the same?

I also went for heavy armor and shield/sword. Basically a fighter that has the advantage of spells with dragon breath and changing into dragon form.

[Gorwe]

引用自 Taramafor：

Been playing as a dragon disciple. Despite not getting the gold dragon speeches in chapter 5 (if you don't pick it) you can still turn into a gold dragon. Though I don't know if it's the same kind of gold dragon.

Basically, is the dragon desciple/sorceror dragon form as powerful as the mytheic gold dragon form? Is the "mythic form" any different/more powerful or are they the same?

I also went for heavy armor and shield/sword. Basically a fighter that has the advantage of spells with dragon breath and changing into dragon form.

That's what Dragonheir is supposed to be, but meh. It's a scuffed archetype, needs fixing badly.

[GunStarX]

引用自 Gorwe：

引用自 GunStarX：

You're right it does say that under primal powers only. So confusing

Primal Powers? Is that the "PP" feat on a red background that Primalist gets on lvl 1? It's blank for me, I suspected it had something to do with that.

As for confusing, I never quite understood what's so special about Hospitaler until I tried it. Then I read it. Then I became angry. Can't they just rename Hosp's Lay? So people don't need to lawyer it lol. This also goes somewhat for Witch Doc.

Sorry it's "primal choices" that shows up for level 4 on the character sheet

[Gorwe]

ORACLE: Yeah, one of the big ones is here. This is such a cool class that grows into width(more than into depth like Sorceror). It is a Spont.Caster which auto learns either Cure or Cause wounds. I personally suggest Cure, Cause is kinda meh. A lot of mysteries which help you further refine your playstyle(they're kinda like Sorc Bloodline) and a Curse which is a double edged sword - you gain some, you lose some. I don't like oCurse because they often feel not really worth it while making stuff needlessly tedious. Base Oracle is the most customizable, but it's not really something that's needed. Seeing how most archetypes simply give up like 1-2 Revelations(=meh), I don't really recommend the base Oracle. It's still quite powerful, don't get me wrong. And with proper approach, it can reach nearly Ecclesitheurge casting potential, which is really high.

* Divine Herbalist: You lose 2 Revelations in order to get Lay on Hands with customizable mercy(basically). You also get Brew Potion and Lore(Nature) scales off your CHA instead of WIS. One problem is that it is a Touch Lay on Hands, so that can be kinda awkward.

* Enlightened Philosopher: This is a weird archetype. You trade one Revelation(=meh) and your capstone changes to gain Knowledge(World) focus and up to +5 Inherent bonus to INT. The thing is, you don't need that INT. If it were up to me, this'd be an INT, memorizing Oracle. Or at the very least INT Oracle. I mean, it's probably better than base, but...yeah, it's weird. NOTE: EP also modifies your Mystery! The only thing differentiating between Mysts on EP is CL 1 spell and Revelations. It's...super weird. Really should trade CHA for INT.

* Lone Strider: You trade two Revs so you can be more mobile and defensive. This part is definitely well worth it. But! You trade half of your Mysts too. Don't get me wrong. Those that are here are mostly fine. I don't know about this, but I don't think you lose that much in practice. But don't gain either because you shouldn't be attacked that much. And you are shoehorned into mostly support playstyles. It's ok, just be warned.

* Possessed Oracle: At a first glance, you don't lose that much. One Rev(literally whatever) and you trade Curse for a forced Powerless Prophecy Curse(which is imo the best Curse). You also get, basically, +4 Will. So, what's wrong? First, it's better to take PP via Beneficial Curse so you get only benefits. This staggering is really awkward. And while we're at the topic of Beneficial. Oracles can abuse this myth feat. Well, guess what? PO CAN'T TAKE Beneficial! It might as well not have a Curse, for all it's worth. /facepalm

* Seeker Oracle: This is basically an Oracle+. You trade 2 Revs so you become better with Trickery(0,5 CL) AND you get, basically, Wizard Bonus Feats. That's it. I don't see any reason why not to pick this one if you intended to take the base one. Not much to it, it's even more useful, believe it or not.

* Wind Whisperer: Two Revs for Aura of Haste and Aura of Free Move. Also, forced Wind Mystery. That sounds awesome. And too good to be true(=ok Myst, two very nice Auras...). And you'd be correct. One tiny detail. You CAN'T TAKE SECOND MYSTERY! Nope. And while Wind is ok, it'd be even better with Nature or Life etc. I mean, those Auras are really quite something, but...be careful with this one, ok?

* Purifier: Aasimar specific archetype. It trades a lot and becomes some sort of a weird Crusader wannabe. You trade half of Revs(all frontloaded in fact) and Extra Cure for ... Armor Training and Channel Energy(hurt Outsiders). Given that you are a CHA class, you shouldn't have any problems landing this(unlike Cleric, don't get me started again). Take Ancestor + Battle or Battle + Nature, some Beneficial Curses...it can be alright. But far away from a Crusader. Note: Even though being race bound is often a downside, Aasimar only have benefits(...), so you get free stuff there. It is an ok arch, just beware, your early is very lopsided and meh.

[Gorwe]

引用自 brownacs：

引用自 Gorwe：

You could unlearn and swap spells as a Sorc in NWN 1 / 2 as a Sorc. What happened to that feature?

... wait, what!? I've played the HELL out of those games and did not know you could do that. You're 100% you can?

You now have 1 of 2 you wanted to see. Oracle is super cool, but some differences(EP's different Mysts, inability to pick Beneficial unless you have lvl 1 Curse feat) are so minute I discovered them by accident. Probably should be mentioned somewhere, somehow.

[Gorwe]

PALADIN: To be honest, not much has changed about Paladin. But there's something to be said about how environments and circumstances change the perception of a thing. Because almost everything is either Evil or Chaotic here and Paladin will have a field day. I'm still not impressed by his casting(feels pointless outside of Effortless Armor and few others), but everything else works. Auras are kinda ok(too small area imo) and Lay on Hands / Smite are ok too. Mark of Justice is the Paladin selling point, as is its hybridization friendliness. Base class is quite reliable, archetypes often experiment too much. Oh, one more thing. If you want to take Seelah with you as a Paladin, Mark of Justice value drops significantly. Because that's going to be her role.

* Divine Guardian: It is a Paladin+ if you want to tank and don't mind the loss of spellcasting. Again, Paladin spellcasting, don't know. Can't you get most of that otherwise? As for DG itself, it's also weird. It's not actually the best Paladin tank, it's more of a secondary tank that makes your primary tank almost untouchable(literally so with Protective Luck hex active). Also, about "Divine Bodyguard", you need DEX to make that work and which Pala takes more than like +2 Dex mod? It's just a weird arch if you ask me. It'd be nice if Guarding Hands automatically affected your Troth should you cast it on yourself(and vice versa).

* Divine Hunter: It is a nice idea, I'll give them that. It's a more lightly armored Paladin that specializes in ranged combat and support. The highlights are Distant Mercy(very nice concept) and the sharing of Precise Shots. This way your casters can focus on other things, more useful things. Very limited synergy with Lann, Wendu etc though. Also, it don't have a Mark of Justice and for no good reason at all. If using Toxbox, just give yourself that. Imo, it should really have it. Without it, it's a really hard sell.

* Divine Scion: If you really wanted to be a heavily armored, holy sneak attacker, here's your chance. But keep in mind that you trade Smite Evil AND Mark of Justice for some Sneak Attacks and Study. Study Target is a weaker, if unlimited, Smite and you only get 4 Sneak Dice, it's not worth it imo. All it's good for is a 5pt dip then into a real Slayer. Maybe if those Sneaks came earlier?

* Hospitaler: My personal favorite Paladin(second is Martyr). Think of it as of Taric from League. You can become ridiculously tanky and you can support, what's not to like? Also, your Channel is DIVORCED from Lay, so that automatically makes you like super tanky. In crises, your Lay just becomes Fast Healing 10d6 lol. And you can still support your group. The downside. No Mark of Justice for you! And fewer Smites, but meh. The lack of Mark really hurts it, but it can function as a Tanking Support just fine even without it - then leave that duty to Seelah. But Guardian + Seelah is a better overall prospect...it's weird.

* Martyr: If I ever saw a class more fitting of an Angel...maybe Angelfire or Holy Light, but given the story...yeah. This is your tanky, holy Bard. You do lose Smite + Mark bundle, so you will be relegated to tanking and support. Fortunately, you are like awesome at this(again...Angel?). Just leave Mark to Seelah. Bigger Auras, flexible Mercy(you can apply even those you haven't picked), Bardic Performance...yeah, what's not to like?

* Warrior of the Holy Light: Yet another candidate for Angel. This one's basically a Paladin+. You sacrifice...nothing(Aura of Faith lol, Holy Light's replacement is 10x better) to gain some very nice, cool abilities. It'd be nice if Power of Faith gave you +1...+3 bonus instead of +1 and +2. Ok, you sacrifice spell casting, but again, Paladin casting is just meh. Can't go wrong with this one imo.

* Stonelord: This is some quite interesting mix of a Paladin and a Stalwart Def. You will be tanky and a half, with actually quite good damage(that will be more readily available than Smite, but less impactful on damage) and everything, but you're not really a Paladin. No Smite, no Mark, no Divine Grace / Health, half Mercies and a different, much less supportive Capstone. Be very certain what you're doing with this one. (it'd be very nice if it got Uncanny Dodge like Stalwart or that dmg redux, idk, something's missing here)

[brownacs]

引用自 Gorwe：

You now have 1 of 2 you wanted to see. Oracle is super cool, but some differences(EP's different Mysts, inability to pick Beneficial unless you have lvl 1 Curse feat) are so minute I discovered them by accident. Probably should be mentioned somewhere, somehow.

Seeker Oracle/Angel's just the bomb.

[GunStarX]

I think Martyr might be the only way to actually agro as a tank? I havent tried it, but anytime I make someone a bard the enemies always try to rush them. Might be pretty valuable

[Conquista]

in unmodded game paladins have the unique spell bestow grace that stacks with their divine grace for double the charisma to saving throws