The best mount?

[gran2996]

I've played Oracle/Angel on a horse, which felt like an orbital strike machine transported by horse and liked it

I want to try Sylvan Sorcerer/Lich - what is the best mount, if I do not want to engage the strongest enemies in melee, just to hame my MC more or less protected from random mobs, so with the best defensive capabilities. It's ok if it becomes large at level 7.

[provokastoras]

I think smilodon or leopard.
cause they both get pounch that means they can charge on rd1 or the suprise round and do 7 attacks in turn base mode. leopard gets pounce from lvl 1 smilodons get it on level 7.
in real time mode... it is different you might either want the pet with the highest ac or a wolf for tripping.
in real time mode pounce abilities are weaker because animations block the number of actions characters can take. you cannot full attack as effectively in real time.

[Conquista]

if you only look at their starting natural armor and dexterity without and with size enhanced at level 7 than you get

bear 6+4 n.ac, 13-2 dex, 7/10 ac
boar 9+2 n.ac, 12-2 dex, 10/11 ac
elk 6+2 n.ac, 17-2 dex, 9/10 ac
leopard 4 n.ac, 21+2 dex, 9/10 ac
mastodon 7+3 n.ac, 14-2 dex, 9/11 ac

without adding one point to dex:
only boar and mastodon can reach 11 ac, but boar starts out with higher ac, so boar wins

with adding one point to dex:
all of the above mentioned pets will reach 11 ac after level 7, but boar still wins with needing no additional dex to reach 11 ac and starting with highest ac

the other animals not listed have worse ac progression by at least one point

[Player#2201]

IMO, most of the animals are interchangable with minimal spread in stats. What I look for now is smallest size adjustments. Buff them like everyone else in the party, then once animal growth hits make sure it's one that doesn't get the size adjustment (or do some additional polymorphing).

I can't express how much easier it is to manage close quarters combat with a 50 Str. medium leopard than an equally strong huge horse.

[Uzkin]

IMO, bully dog is the best.

[seeker1]

My slight UI complaint: if you've got a party of 9 made up of say 6 and 3 animals (or a dragon), well, you normally can't see everything past your 6 chars without scrolling. If you don't train yourself to constantly scroll that arrow and check, you don't always notice, "hmmm, I probably should have healed my velociraptor before starting this". I just wish there was a way so that the animal's health/status was always visible without scrolling.

[Dalaule]

Originally posted by seeker1:

My slight UI complaint: if you've got a party of 9 made up of say 6 and 3 animals (or a dragon), well, you normally can't see everything past your 6 chars without scrolling. If you don't train yourself to constantly scroll that arrow and check, you don't always notice, "hmmm, I probably should have healed my velociraptor before starting this". I just wish there was a way so that the animal's health/status was always visible without scrolling.

You can actually use the scroll-wheel on your mouse while hovering over the character portraits.

[Dalaule]

Originally posted by Conquista:

if you only look at their starting natural armor and dexterity without and with size enhanced at level 7 than you get

bear 6+4 n.ac, 13-2 dex, 7/10 ac
boar 9+2 n.ac, 12-2 dex, 10/11 ac
elk 6+2 n.ac, 17-2 dex, 9/10 ac
leopard 4 n.ac, 21+2 dex, 9/10 ac
mastodon 7+3 n.ac, 14-2 dex, 9/11 ac

without adding one point to dex:
only boar and mastodon can reach 11 ac, but boar starts out with higher ac, so boar wins

with adding one point to dex:
all of the above mentioned pets will reach 11 ac after level 7, but boar still wins with needing no additional dex to reach 11 ac and starting with highest ac

the other animals not listed have worse ac progression by at least one point

For highest AC on animal pets, you want the highest natural armor, combined with low dex, so you can stick barding on them. You come to the right conclusion, but leave out barding. :)

[TheBasque]

Definitely Daredevil Elk for massive damage on charges and great AC. He was my best tank for most of the game.

[dwarfpcfan]

leopard, pounce+trip plus very high AC and it doesn't become large making navigating donjons and tight spaces much easier.

[Jalmari H.]

you will want at least one animal companion aka pet that has "autotrip" for less micromanagement and a lot of aoo's.

mad dog with leopard will do great, pick combat reflexes + other trip/dex dmg feats

charge does not work well it's bugged to max i would not count much on anything that reads charge on it, especially in tbm.

animals as mounts do not seem very useful i think?

[GunStarX]

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

animals as mounts do not seem very useful i think?

I know this isn't what the OP is trying to do, just wanted to point out how useful a horse mount is for a melee build. Your mount acts as a free move action for your character, so every round you can make a full attack from your mount. A horse can also be enlarged making it possible to ride with enlarged person on your character for more damage and reach. The mount also aggros enemy attacks, so your character doesn't have to focus on ac, as the mount is almost always attacked instead.

[Conquista]

Originally posted by Dalaule:

For highest AC on animal pets, you want the highest natural armor, combined with low dex, so you can stick barding on them. You come to the right conclusion, but leave out barding. :)

oh ya gear is also important but i wanted to limit the conditions alot to make it less complicated to read for one post

with heavy barding you still want to have at least 12 dex, size up at level 7 reduce it by 2 unless small animal, animal growth spell also reduces it by 2, but cats grace spell can increase it by 4, so starting out with 12 is ideal

but having a bit more dex is still good in early to midgame, where there are no heavy bardings available, so its not completly wasted through the whole playthrough

[cRPG Bro]

Bully Dog or Wolf are overall the best pets to me becase of high STR + Trip on all attacks (and they gain more attacks/round as they level up to 4 when hasted at max level).
You can make a case for Elk or Triceratops if you want to Charge with them, as they both gain a huge damage to Charge starting from level 7.
https://youtu.be/GHlSyWhMhyA

[gran2996]

Thank you all for your answers!

[Dalaule]

Elk has same in-game footprint as a horse, but has better stats, and a deadly charge. It doesn't become rideable until lvl 7, tho, which is roughly mid act 2. Personally, an Elk is much cooler than a horse, but.. up to you.

I see alot of people recommending Leopard, and I want to agree with them. Leopard is absolutely a good pet, until lvl 7, when all the other animals catch up, and in most cases surpass the leopard. It's also never rideable, unless you're smol.