two weapon fighting and natural attacks

[Osama bin Ali]

i'm trying to make a melee fighter relying on natural attacks but can't seem to figure out how exactly they interact with two-weapon fighting
is it possible to reduce the -5 malus to secondary natural attacks?
does two weapon fighting do anything for natural attacks?
does using a one-handed or two-handed weapon additionally to natural attacks change anything?

[Drake]

No, natural attacks are a separate bunch. You can reduce the penalty from -5 to -4 with a mythic feat.

[Conquista]

i think claws count as two weapon fighting

[PuppYofDOOM]

If you have 1 hand free. Ull use claws.

Claws do not count as two weapon fighting. Natural attacks dont need feats.

U get two free hits.

That i know of there are no secondary claws. U use the greatest claws available or active.

They dont suffer penalties.


With greater weapn fighting u get three hits offhand. Edit for clarity n typos* so u lose out on 1 hit not having a weapon. Not going gwf. U also lose out on whatever weapon buffs the offhand has and in this game plenty have massive effects.

Though if you have geniekind Buff the natural attacks are neato.




You cant use claws if both hands are occupied with a twohanded weapon or 1h + occupied/holding with a spell. U try the spell after the claws if u wanna be hax or get a spellstrike off. Recently ppl been losing claws as magus. Quicked touch magic goes off insta and gives a free attack for spellstrikers.

I moved on to greater vital strike magus with sense vitals and have 20d6 extra damage. 1pt of rowdy rogue.

Bites are auto and stackable from different sources in this game.
Secondary bites have -5

Horns and triple fin helm will work as long as they connect.

No idea how this works even tho i can technically do it. Triple fin helm was shelved for shy lilys.

[Myrmicus]

Claws don't count as two weapon fighting.
Unless the description says so, any natural attack is a main attack. Some are considered secondary attacks (horns and some bites). None are affected by the two weapon fighting feat chain.

[Stink Bug]

Primary natural attacks count as secondary if you’re wielding a weapon, so if you have a light 1-handed weapon and 2 primary claws you’ll get 1 claw attack at -5 in addition to your normal iteratives. The Multiattack feat reduces the penalty for secondary attacks to -2, however I do not believe non-companions have access to it in this game. It’s classified as a monster feat in tabletop, but characters are not prohibited from taking them if they qualify, so I suggest alt-b’ing Owlcat to open the feat up to players too.

[Myrmicus]

There's plenty of way to get natural attacks without being MC :
- Wolf Curse, from Oracle or Stigmatized Witch (One bite attack)
- Draconic Bloodline (Claw attacks)
- Dragon Disciple (Draconic Bloodline +bite attack)
- Abyssal Bloodline (claw attack)
- Snake Bloodline (Bite attack)
- Nails, from Witch or Shaman hexes (claw attack)
- Barbarian Powers : animal totem gives claw attacks, Animal Fury gives a bite attack, fiend totem gives a horn attack
- Alchemist/Mutagenic warrior Mutagens : claw attacks
- There's a helm gives horn attack
- Any animal/draconic transformation gives you natural attacks.

There's an universal mythic ability that makes your natural attacks ignore most of the damage reductions from opponents.

And for the MC there's racial sources of natural attacks :
- Motherless Tieffling have an innate bite attack
- Kitsune have a bite attack
- Orcs can get a bite attack with a feat.
- Abyssal Mythic rank 2 gives you a horn attack.
- Demon Path gives you a claw attack.

Different sources of claw attacks don't stack.
Different sources of horn attacks don't stack.
Different sources of bite attack DO stack.
This mean that one you have a source of claw and horn attacks, you're good, but you can take multiple sources of bite attack :
- Take a Bloodrager Primalist with Snake Bloodline, give him a second bloodline with mythic powers and pick draconic, take levels into Dragon Disciple, get the rage power to have another bite, take the fiend totem, dip inro stigmatized witch for the wolf curse and nail hexe and you have : claws, horn and 3 bites attacks...

[Sipher]

Originally posted by Myrmicus:

There's plenty of way to get natural attacks without being MC :
- Wolf Curse, from Oracle or Stigmatized Witch (One bite attack)
- Draconic Bloodline (Claw attacks)
- Dragon Disciple (Draconic Bloodline +bite attack)
- Abyssal Bloodline (claw attack)
- Snake Bloodline (Bite attack)
- Nails, from Witch or Shaman hexes (claw attack)
- Barbarian Powers : animal totem gives claw attacks, Animal Fury gives a bite attack, fiend totem gives a horn attack
- Alchemist/Mutagenic warrior Mutagens : claw attacks
- There's a helm gives horn attack
- Any animal/draconic transformation gives you natural attacks.

There's an universal mythic ability that makes your natural attacks ignore most of the damage reductions from opponents.

And for the MC there's racial sources of natural attacks :
- Motherless Tieffling have an innate bite attack
- Kitsune have a bite attack
- Orcs can get a bite attack with a feat.
- Abyssal Mythic rank 2 gives you a horn attack.
- Demon Path gives you a claw attack.

Different sources of claw attacks don't stack.
Different sources of horn attacks don't stack.
Different sources of bite attack DO stack.
This mean that one you have a source of claw and horn attacks, you're good, but you can take multiple sources of bite attack :
- Take a Bloodrager Primalist with Snake Bloodline, give him a second bloodline with mythic powers and pick draconic, take levels into Dragon Disciple, get the rage power to have another bite, take the fiend totem, dip inro stigmatized witch for the wolf curse and nail hexe and you have : claws, horn and 3 bites attacks...

very intersting do the number of natural attacks (claw, bite and horn) increase in number per turn just as normal weapons from having an high enough BAB? Or are you always stuck of having for example "only" 3 bite attacks per turn no matter your stats?

[Stink Bug]

Originally posted by andrej:

Originally posted by Myrmicus:

There's plenty of way to get natural attacks

very intersting do the number of natural attacks (claw, bite and horn) increase in number per turn just as normal weapons from having an high enough BAB? Or are you always stuck of having for example "only" 3 bite attacks per turn no matter your stats?

If you're ONLY using natural attacks, you do NOT get iterative attacks from increases in BAB (You will get an extra attack from haste, holy power, etc. though). So if you have a bite plus two claws and no weapons equipped you will always have 3 attacks (4 with haste etc). The plus side is your attacks (aside from those designated as secondary) will all occur at your highest attack bonus.

If you use a weapon and natural attacks that don't involve your primary hand (such as a dagger + claw, or greatsword + bite), you'll get your normal iteratives with the weapon plus your available natural weapons at your highest attack bonus -5.