Illusion spells

[Aleddra]

The whole Neino spellbook. How is it supposed to work. Assuming you give invisibility to a character. Then it can't attack or he'll lose it. What's the point? Half of the skills are like that and the other half i never bothered because i don' like the first one. Phantasm killer? Killing one mob in a single shot is going to work? Web, maybe...

I don't get it, obviously.

[gmwaddington]

Greater Invisibility doesn't end when the character attacks.

[MjKorz]

Illusion is the most powerful magic school in the game. No other school of magic can compare. A full arcane Illusion caster is the most powerful build you can create in the entire game, it deletes entire screens of enemies on unfair difficulty with a single spell. Sadly, Nenio can never be a good Illusion caster. The best use for Nenio is to become an Enchantment school specialist, which is also very strong, but not proper Illusion caster tier.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778015981

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778018563

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778021190

As for the spells:
1. Color Spray is 1 round stun which is pretty good, when you're stunning an enemy already engaged with your melees. The enemy will suffer an AC penalty from being stunned and will also lose its dexterity bonus to AC, making it dramatically easier to hit. In most cases, it's instant death for the stunned enemies from your melee attacks.

2. Rainbow Pattern - your first AoE disable. Very strong and in most cases encounter ending spell.

3. Phantasmal Killer - single target instant kill spell. Use this to slay virtually any boss in the game. Debuff the boss with double Evil Eye from Camellia + Ember, if necessary.

4. Phantasmal Web - your AoE disable against human enemies like cultists and other enemies that are not immune to poison. All demons are immune to poison, so this spell is very situational, but still encounter ending when it actually works. The reason why it doesn't work against poison-immune enemies is because Nauseated effect is a poison effect.

5. Phantasmal Putrefaction - your general purpose AoE disable against most enemies in the games. This is an encounter ending spell in most cases. The only caveat is that the sleep effect kicks in after 6 seconds. Enemies that fall asleep and then get hit will try to get up, triggering attacks of opportunity, only to fall asleep again. This spell alone makes most unfair encounters a joke.

6. Mass Invisibility - severely underrated spell. Making your entire party invisible allows you to get the first turn in almost all post-cutscene encounters.

7. Scintillating Pattern - severely underrated spell that drops an AoE Confusion effect that has no save. Yep, you need literally zero investment to cast this spell at its maximal efficiency. Also, despite its description, it has no HD limit. However, this spell must be cast on a target, you cannot just cast it on the ground. For this purpose, it's very good to make it selective via metamagic. Also, it's a good idea to maximize it as well, as the spell duration is 1d4 rounds that becomes 4 rounds = 24 seconds when maximized.

8. Weird - the spell. The most powerful spell in the game. The spell that makes mythic spells look like a joke in comparison. The crown jewel of Illusion magic that elevates the school above all others.

[Nismu]

invisibility is handy when scouting or disarming traps that enemies guard ..

phantasmal putrefication and phantasmal web are two very nice illusion spells and end game weird can really help clear out trash mobs

and in the end nothing forces you to use just illusion spells

[Obi Hung Kenobi]

wait a minute, evil eye stacks??? explain plz

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

Illusion spells aren't that good in WotR, because so many demons have see invis or true seeing. You have to constantly dispel them with greater dispel (area) to make greater invis work.

And Phantasm Killer + Weird are pretty bad. Not only have you overcome their will save, after that you need to overcome a fortitude save as well. Corrupt magic lowers their saves, based on how many buffs you dispell. That's pretty strong, but only works on a single target.

[Princess Pilfer]

Illusion ends the game extremely strong, but everything ends the game extremely strong if you know what you're doing.

For the vast majority of the game illusion is hot garbage, you just don't have access to enough DC boosting/save debuffing stuff to reliably make it work and most of the enemies you'd want to use it on are immune anyways. (which you can bypass but again, only at the very end of the game)

Meanwhile Ascendant Element scorching and later hellfire ray or (insert angel spell here) are absolutely capable of unresistably 1 shot killing anything they want

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Obi Hung Kenobi:

wait a minute, evil eye stacks??? explain plz

Witch Evil Eye stacks with Shaman Evil Eye, same as Protective Luck.

Originally posted by Princess Pilfer:

For the vast majority of the game illusion is hot garbage, you just don't have access to enough DC boosting/save debuffing stuff to reliably make it work and most of the enemies you'd want to use it on are immune anyways. (which you can bypass but again, only at the very end of the game)

By level 8 you have -8 from stacking Evil Eyes. Persistent Spell on top of that. And there are a number of ways to further debuff enemies or buff your ability score/DC. The stuff is there and it works.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Princess Pilfer:

Illusion ends the game extremely strong, but everything ends the game extremely strong if you know what you're doing.

For the vast majority of the game illusion is hot garbage, you just don't have access to enough DC boosting/save debuffing stuff to reliably make it work and most of the enemies you'd want to use it on are immune anyways. (which you can bypass but again, only at the very end of the game)

Meanwhile Ascendant Element scorching and later hellfire ray or (insert angel spell here) are absolutely capable of unresistably 1 shot killing anything they want

You have no clue what you're talking about. Illusion spells dominate the game and overshadow all other schools starting from the moment you hit level 7, which is somewhere at the start of chapter 2 or even earlier, if you know how to get extra XP by milking companion XP share. Illusion magic allows a proper specialist to one-shot all unfair bosses starting from the Vescavor Queen. No other character can do this.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Illusion is the most powerful magic school in the game. No other school of magic can compare. A full arcane Illusion caster is the most powerful build you can create in the entire game, it deletes entire screens of enemies on unfair difficulty with a single spell. Sadly, Nenio can never be a good Illusion caster. The best use for Nenio is to become an Enchantment school specialist, which is also very strong, but not proper Illusion caster tier.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778015981

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778018563

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2778021190

As for the spells:
1. Color Spray is 1 round stun which is pretty good, when you're stunning an enemy already engaged with your melees. The enemy will suffer an AC penalty from being stunned and will also lose its dexterity bonus to AC, making it dramatically easier to hit. In most cases, it's instant death for the stunned enemies from your melee attacks.

2. Rainbow Pattern - your first AoE disable. Very strong and in most cases encounter ending spell.

3. Phantasmal Killer - single target instant kill spell. Use this to slay virtually any boss in the game. Debuff the boss with double Evil Eye from Camellia + Ember, if necessary.

4. Phantasmal Web - your AoE disable against human enemies like cultists and other enemies that are not immune to poison. All demons are immune to poison, so this spell is very situational, but still encounter ending when it actually works. The reason why it doesn't work against poison-immune enemies is because Nauseated effect is a poison effect.

5. Phantasmal Putrefaction - your general purpose AoE disable against most enemies in the games. This is an encounter ending spell in most cases. The only caveat is that the sleep effect kicks in after 6 seconds. Enemies that fall asleep and then get hit will try to get up, triggering attacks of opportunity, only to fall asleep again. This spell alone makes most unfair encounters a joke.

6. Mass Invisibility - severely underrated spell. Making your entire party invisible allows you to get the first turn in almost all post-cutscene encounters.

7. Scintillating Pattern - severely underrated spell that drops an AoE Confusion effect that has no save. Yep, you need literally zero investment to cast this spell at its maximal efficiency. Also, despite its description, it has no HD limit. However, this spell must be cast on a target, you cannot just cast it on the ground. For this purpose, it's very good to make it selective via metamagic. Also, it's a good idea to maximize it as well, as the spell duration is 1d4 rounds that becomes 4 rounds = 24 seconds when maximized.

8. Weird - the spell. The most powerful spell in the game. The spell that makes mythic spells look like a joke in comparison. The crown jewel of Illusion magic that elevates the school above all others.

Also the Shadow "x" line is very versatile and you get a lot of spells for the cost of double saves. Ofc, without Tabletop Tweaks you don't have Shadow Enchantment and it is my personal opinion that it should all just be Lesser / Normal / Greater Shades available at 4 / 6 / 8 that mimics Conj / Ench and Evo, but whatever.

Really, Illusion is up there with Necromancy when talking about well rounded, useful schools.

[jutschi78]

How did you get that absurd high spell dc of over 70???

With that DC, every school is very strong, abjuration with banish, enchantment with (mass) hold / dominate Monster, evocation with mass icyprison and so on.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by jutschi78:

How did you get that absurd high dc of over 70???

Expanded Arsenal build that takes advantage of Demon's massive inherent DC boost. I made a guide, if you want to read the details:

https://pastebin.com/XE8r2LEw

[jutschi78]

Wow, but what is the highest save throw?

And what is the

+12 from 12 heroic spell focus feats

Bonus?

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by jutschi78:

Wow, but what is the highest save throw?

And what is the

+12 from 12 heroic spell focus feats

Bonus?

That's the expanded arsenal contribution. Expanded Arsenal: X converts the DC bonuses from Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Spell Focus (Mythic) for schools that are not X into a DC bonus for a school that is X.

Important note: you cannot have spell focus in school X when you want to use expanded arsenal to boost school X.

[Aleddra]

I need to learn to play. I don't get most of this.
The top 10 spells is useful though.

[jutschi78]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by jutschi78:

Wow, but what is the highest save throw?

And what is the

+12 from 12 heroic spell focus feats

Bonus?

That's the expanded arsenal contribution. Expanded Arsenal: X converts the DC bonuses from Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Spell Focus (Mythic) for schools that are not X into a DC bonus for a school that is X.

Important note: you cannot have spell focus in school X when you want to use expanded arsenal to boost school X.

So the most powerful school is that, you don't get a spellfocus into and take expanded arsenal? Strange... i did not know, that all spellfoki stack...

Now i understand, why you say, that Nenio don't make a good Illusionist, because she have spellfocus illusion from the beginning. But it is a bad design, that Nenio can't be the best illusionist, because she have the spellfocus illusion...