any use of heavy armors?

[heime2003]

in most casual rpgs, the heavier an armor is the better. but this game i see penalties on using it. so far i have ignored them (all my melee fighters use medium armors instead of heavy armors) i cant get away of feeling ive playing wrong

[x_equals_speed]

Honestly the highest ACs you can reach are obtained by throwing armour away entirely.

But if AC isn't your main concern you can get some middling decent ones using heavy armour. It gets better when you start finding mithril armour, which noticably reduces the penalties for heavy armour.

[heime2003]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

Honestly the highest ACs you can reach are obtained by throwing armour away entirely.

But if AC isn't your main concern you can get some middling decent ones using heavy armour. It gets better when you start finding mithril armour, which noticably reduces the penalties for heavy armour.

when do i start finding those mithril armors?

[Akoro]

First of all, the fighter class can reduce the penalties of heavy armor so a full plate is a great choice for him.

In second place, the heavier armor is the better in terms of protection , for example, a character even with a lot of dexterity (20 at lvl 1) with a chainshirt (the best light armor) will have 18 ac (+4 for dex, +4 for armor), the same character with a full plate armor will have 20 ac (+1 for dex, +9 for armor). Heavy armor have high penalties for some skills? Yes, but you dont need a high skill score in all of your characters, your archer (lann, wenduag, aure) can have a high athletics, movility or stealth score with light armor.

[Sunday_Assassin]

The benefits of heavy armour are generally outweighed by AC bonuses available to characters wearing light or no armour through feats and class abilities. Monks and Instinctual Warriors get Wisdom bonus to AC, Sword Saints and Duelists get Intelligence to AC, and they can still wear "armour" on top in the form of bracers or Mage Armour spells.

In this game the Mage Armour spell gets ridiculously powerful with the Archmage Armour mythic feat. After a few mythic levels it's as good or better than most heavy armour.

The best reason to actually use heavier armours is if they come with powerful abilities/enhancements. They're not worth considering for standard defensive ability. Most of the feats that exist in tabletop to make character good at using armour - equivalent to the unarmoured bonuses - have been left out of the game. Someone at Owlcat evidently doesn't like the bulky, armoured aesthetic.

[x_equals_speed]

I'd agree with Akoro that the skill penalties are more or less irrelevant. For most skill checks it just checks the best person in the group so as long as you've got some characters wearing light/no armour who invest in the skills that armour effects and have your armour wearers invest in skills that don't care about armour then you can more or less forget about it.

The real trade off is dexterity vs armour bonus. Heavier armours give more armour but allow smaller bonuses from dexterity. If your character has a low dexterity then there's no penalty to heavy armour and you might as well slap them in plate. If they have a high dexterity then sometimes it's still good to slap them in plate, if the extra armour bonus is greater than the dexterity bonus they can't apply. As is the case in the worked example of an unbuffed first level max dex character with no class features.

A character whose job is not "Have the highest AC and get all enemies to attack me" can do just fine in heavy armour right through to the end of the game. A character who's aiming for a high AC to be the main thing they do will likely use items and spells that provide a bonus as if they were wearing armour while having a very high dexterity (or other stat they've found a way to substitute for dexterity)

I wouldn't overly worry about when mithril shows up, it's a nice boost when you get it, but heavy armours are perfectly viable before you do.

[Aliceskysareblue]

absolutly... helps with tanking, classes like fighters and bloodrager reduces the checkl penality.

that said unless your a frontliner heavy armor is optional

[There is no Mango]

Use Tabletop Tweaks mod on a second play through and after.
It just makes the game better (and limits the excessive accumulation of stats), armor included.

[jutschi78]

mithril full plate + amor training (fighter/Hellnight)+ magic vestment (the bonus stack with the enhancement bonus from the amor, wich it do not in pnp rules) give some decent ac without a ton of multiclass/Feats and may eyerything in cha/wis

But yeah, the highest ac you can obtain with muliclass (Monk scaled fist + Oracle with nature wispher for double cha on AC + some level of magus with int on ac, cranestyle... there are some guides abot to get nearly an ac of 100

[corisai]

Originally posted by jutschi78:

mithril full plate + amor training (fighter/Hellnight)+ magic vestment (the bonus stack with the enhancement bonus from the amor, wich it do not in pnp rules) give some decent ac without a ton of multiclass/Feats and may eyerything in cha/wis

Except:
a) 1 level of Monk / IW isn't costly.
b) Investing into Wis is a fine idea for Fighter as his own Will save is so weak (and Will usually rolled for nasty disable spells).
c) I don't remember clearly but IMHO fighter still keep movement penalty from armor and it's annoying.

And on top of it - you could ignore all that non-sense by making fighter pure damage dealer using reach weapon to strike from second line.

Originally posted by jutschi78:

But yeah, the highest ac you can obtain with muliclass (Monk scaled fist + Oracle with nature wispher for double cha on AC + some level of magus with int on ac, cranestyle... there are some guides abot to get nearly an ac of 100

Don't know about DLC but in vanila you don't need anything higher then 80 even on Unfair :)
So such "pure tanks" in most cases were either early game only mercs or completely ruined characters (as they would lack damage for endgame).
Classic Sohei / SS damage dealer build is soooo much better then pure tank.

[Gorok Delvedeep]

Originally posted by heime2003:

in most casual rpgs, the heavier an armor is the better. but this game i see penalties on using it. so far i have ignored them (all my melee fighters use medium armors instead of heavy armors) i cant get away of feeling ive playing wrong

owlcat, like other sweaty morons leftoids, fell for all the 'plate is like wearing fifty thousand anvils it sucks' memes that were discounted decades and decades ago, and because they're all casterfags, went all in on making sure that martials suck ass.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Gorok Delvedeep:

owlcat, like other sweaty morons leftoids, fell for all the 'plate is like wearing fifty thousand anvils it sucks' memes that were discounted decades and decades ago, and because they're all casterfags, went all in on making sure that martials suck ass.

Nice fantasy, but:
a) Armor indeed would do nothing against being hit by elephant.
b) Owlcats nerfed casters several times while almost never nerfed melee (and melee have much higher sustained dps).

[Conquista]

armored melee works like naked melee, add massive amount of buffs or get crushed

[jutschi78]

Originally posted by corisai:

[
c) I don't remember clearly but IMHO fighter still keep movement penalty from armor and it's annoying.

Yes, you are slower, early it is very annoying, but mirgame + it dosnet matter. you have rapid retreat, haste, the lvl 2 cleric spell, the removes the penalties, a mount, longstrider, boots with more speed, coocking recipes with speed bonus... and some options to move faster more.

One lvl monk is AC wise not better than figther + amortraining, unless you have dex ans wis high and invest in both. Besides, not everyone wants to play a lawful char and many of ur companions are not lawful. But it is a easy way for cranestyle and a nice extra saves bonus. Traditional monk 2 can be o good dip for a marttial, that want some defensive power.

And yes yes, Sohei is a verry solid alternative to a fighter for the MC.