why is the DC of my spell so low? am i doing something wrong?

[archdevil86]

I am familiar with the system on the whole, having played baulder's gate, neverwinter nights and that era of games.

I am also following a min max guide here:

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Main_Character

the companions i let them on auto level up.

The issue i have is that, all my spells are basically only DC of about 20-24. enemy mostly have +18- +26 saves, which means all my spells are usually have 5% or less chances of success.

I am in Act 4 now, and basically, almost never got to use my offensive spells other than those like fireball which save negates only half.

This is so frustrating. i want to use the awesome spells, but why the hell is the DC so low? did i do anything wrong? all my caster have the +6 stats item to their main attributes. and even my Level 9 spells are only at DC 26.

Please help!

[gamers.txt]

Originally posted by archdevil86:

This is so frustrating. i want to use the awesome spells, but why the hell is the DC so low? did i do anything wrong?

Yes, but without knowing more about your class, feats and items we cannot help. For ref my sspecialist level 9 spells in the DLC are topping DC55+

[BCGaius]

You didn't really do anything wrong, you're playing the game like a normal human being and are getting values that the system was designed to handle back in 2001 (although they would've been on the high side for original 3rd Edition, still within what the system intended).

The problem is that between splat, general system bloat, and a very particular type of player/GM, playing the game like a normal human being within the parameters it was designed for no longer really works. You need to do as the poster above suggests and get spell DC in the 50+ range to "play," and if you don't know how to do this, congratulations! You have successfully done something more valuable with your life than break a 20 year-old battered, abused, and grossly distorted RPG ruleset.

[erconn]

Originally posted by BCGaius:

You didn't really do anything wrong, you're playing the game like a normal human being and are getting values that the system was designed to handle back in 2001 (although they would've been on the high side for original 3rd Edition, still within what the system intended).

The problem is that between splat, general system bloat, and a very particular type of player/GM, playing the game like a normal human being within the parameters it was designed for no longer really works. You need to do as the poster above suggests and get spell DC in the 50+ range to "play," and if you don't know how to do this, congratulations! You have successfully done something more valuable with your life than break a 20 year-old battered, abused, and grossly distorted RPG ruleset.

I mean i love pathfinder but i don't think you should need to make as overpowered sweaty build just to not get rekt by normal difficulty. Building a strong character is fun but some people prefer the rolplaying element of it. It doesn't make rp sense to take a one level dip in monk.

[BCGaius]

Originally posted by erconn:

I mean i love pathfinder but i don't think you should need to make as overpowered sweaty build just to not get rekt by normal difficulty. Building a strong character is fun but some people prefer the rolplaying element of it. It doesn't make rp sense to take a one level dip in monk.

I agree, but such is this series' fatal flaw. It's not a roleplaying game, it's a spreadsheetplaying game.

[provokastoras]

well you are doing something wrong... most of the builds I see for casters in that guide are blaster builds so obviously your blaster spells will do better...
the easiest way to fix your problem is to have a witch or a shaman (ideally both) cast evil eye on your target to give them a -8 to their saves, keep an eye out for items that boost the dcs of the schools you want to use, and for items that give sacred or profane bonuses to your stats, if I recall the demongraft in the arena also improves the spell dc and if you agree to serve a certain villain in chapter 4 she also boosts your charisma with a profane bonus. so if you are a charisma based caster that will help with the dcs.

[archdevil86]

how do you get your DC to be 55?! the companions (on default builds) all have their DC of 20+. and they are basically all useless. I have changed my party mainly buffers and range/melee fighters now. even then, the AC are in the 40+ with my attack only +30.

i am playing on core difficulty. if i want to be able to use spells like how i used to in baulder's gate, should i drop it down to easy difficulty?

[archdevil86]

can i have more info on how is the DC calculated? what can i do, other than the Cha/Wis/Int stats increase to make my spell more difficult to save?

[provokastoras]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2774232537
So thats 10 DC +17 dc, total 27, cast a 9 level spell its 36, if I had a brownfur transmuter or a headband giving her +8 int I would have an extra 2 she does not bother cause she is a kinetist and prefers a kinetic diadem for +6d6 damage. if she also gets school focus, greater school focus and mythic school focus thats a +6, you wear one of those robes that give +2 to dc thats a +8 do this twice and use the mythic ability that applies or greater school feats to every school and all your spells get +12 dc. total. 54, change her race to either gnome or elf for an extra +2 to illussions and or enchantments the dc for that schools will be 56, choose a specific spell for spell specialization for an extra +2 to dc for a total of close to 60 dc.
or make an alchemist and use bombs to get a cognatogen with an extra +8 int on top of whats listed here then your bombs will have a dc of 55.stg without much effort.
Oh and from what I see I spend my level up points on dexterity rather than inteligence... so you could have an extra +2 from base stat.

[Yaldabaoth]

Originally posted by archdevil86:

can i have more info on how is the DC calculated? what can i do, other than the Cha/Wis/Int stats increase to make my spell more difficult to save?

10 + spell level + your caster ability modifier but beyond that pretty much just items and feats (if you ever wondered why "Heightened Spell" feat is a thing, this is it). It is one of the most difficult things to increase in the game for a reason. If you get a DC of 55 (which is absurdly high and super late game, mind you), you can decide any combat encounter with one spell. High level magic is just that powerful. If you want to play high level casters in this game, you need to understand the spells you cast and the rules that are used. Late game, some encounters (I'm looking at you, overpowered vavakia) have such godly stats, there is only one way that the designers intended to defeat them by. If you try to overcome them by focussing on kind of saving throw (let's say this opponent has 70/40/65 saving throws and you constantly roll against fortitude), you will fail. In that case, you need to use spells to roll against reflex. Selective (metamagic) Sirocco in that case is amazing, if you have evocation feats.
Long story short: If you just want pew pew mages without worrying too much, yes, lower the difficulty.

[Yaldabaoth]

Originally posted by provokastoras:

choose a specific spell for spell specialization for an extra +2 to dc for a total of close to 60 dc.

Spell Specialization does not increase dc, only caster level for damage/duration calculations.

Originally posted by provokastoras:

and use the mythic ability that applies or greater school feats to every school and all your spells get +12 dc.

If you are talking about Expanded Arsenal here, that does NOT increase ALL your schools, just the one you choose when selecting the feat. Unfortunately, the game lets you choose the school that you already have feats in so you could end up wasting this feat pick entirely if you actually thought it worked the way described above.

[provokastoras]

Originally posted by Yaldabaoth:

Originally posted by provokastoras:

choose a specific spell for spell specialization for an extra +2 to dc for a total of close to 60 dc.

Spell Specialization does not increase dc, only caster level for damage/duration calculations.

thanks, I was afraid i was the nerd here :)
hm it used to work that way the last time i played, the game has improved quite a lot since then though, so there are some glitches no longer working and some things working better, also keep in mind that picture is a kinetist and as I mentioned she is itmemised to hit with blasts and not for DC, i am confident that if you put the effort a wizard could easily get their intellect well over 50 stg. I remember there is a staff tat also gives profane bonuses to intellect and a couple of other items that do such things.

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

Originally posted by archdevil86:

how do you get your DC to be 55?! the companions (on default builds) all have their DC of 20+. and they are basically all useless. I have changed my party mainly buffers and range/melee fighters now. even then, the AC are in the 40+ with my attack only +30.

i am playing on core difficulty. if i want to be able to use spells like how i used to in baulder's gate, should i drop it down to easy difficulty?

Lich with merged spellbook based on charisma (+6 DC more than a INT wizard). My highest DC was 46.

But the real spell you want to use is the lvl 9 spell "corrupt magic". As example, the last boss buffed in the game has 60/64/52 and after corrupt magic it has 36/37/28.

As Lich you just need lvl 14 and Mythic Rank 3 merged spell book to have access to that spell.

[darkholyPL]

Unfortunetly this is a fault of the advanture path, or more specificaly the encounter design that owlcat put in this game. The CR of the encounters is often pretty bonkers, and the enemies you will often face have bloated stats and saves. If you are not gaming the system with every trick in the book, your DC will be abysmal, compared to the enemies saves.
As such, you can't really have 'fun' with your spells, unless you are building for DC from the get go, and even then your options will be somewhat limited, as you can't spread yourself out too thin, you simply will not have enough feats to cover every, or even most schools (without gimping yourself in other areas).
Welcome to Wrath.

[Sultryhag]

I play on normal too but I didn't autolevel my companions. I have specific builds for them and I also make use of debuffs to land my spells. I think you have to understand that spells have a great chance of not landing because when you examine an enemy a lot of them have a resistance to the spells. You need to reduce that resistance to help you land spells.

Further you must pick the spells for your companions so that they are equipped with the spells that can help the spells land. These games are dependent on these tactics it is part of the way the game is played. You cannot just play willy nilly without researching the builds and understanding the mechanics. That is part of the fun of these types of games.

A certain amount of effort has to go into your build and the build of your companions even on a normal difficulty you can get wrecked by losing a few in the party that can be avoided by playing smartly and observing the resistance and other aspects like not rushing into a room.

I know that sometimes all we want is a game where you can just pick it up and go. To get a less frustrating experience I really advice that you try to really think about your group and what spells and abilities they need to work together. Of course once you get the hang of it you can go wild :P

[MjKorz]

If you want your spells to work, you pick a school and specialize in it.