Help choosing strong ranged build

[atm]

I am just about at my wits' end trying to decide on a good ranged character for my party in unfair. I have gone to the near-end of the game on unfair quite a few times, and want to try something a bit different but still powerful. I am at risk of just recreating the same builds I have used in previous games, and really want to avoid that.

I am trying to settle on a sustained damage build that can mow stuff down all day while the front line keeps things busy.



Classes I have (over) used as ranged/archers in the past are:

-Sanctified Slayer domain-monkey build, which is able to boost its own attack by +20 or more by popping domain abilities (visions of madness, touch of good, bit of luck). Also has about 6d6 sneak attack, greater bane weapon for another 4d6, self-invisibility, studied target, and divine power for another +6 attack and damage. (Also used an axiomatic bow with the good domain holy lance ability for up to another +4d6 per hit). A truly amazing build, but want to try a different class.

-Eldritch Archer - is just all-round nice. You can guarantee any enemy is flat-footed with your prescient strike, which seems to work correctly for the Eldritch Archer (vs the Eldritch Scion for whom it appears to only last 1 round, not 2). This guarantees sneak attack will go off if you can get access to sense vitals (which you can through expanded spell access if you take it to L19). In addition you can add 3 elements to your bow and do up to +10d6 from elemental barrage per hit, and also add holy and bane for another +4d6. You also have true strike, which works well with bows since manyshot means your first hit is a double hit, and can cast before attacking in any round.

-Pally - wasn't as successful as the above, but you can make your bow flaming and holy, and smiting will get you up to +20 damage per hit. In one game I also ran a Martyr who wasn't able to smite, but gave the party +4 attack from the bard song, and found him a nice character to play (if not quite up to unfair standards). Has some unique supporting spells (bless weapon, holy sword, bestow grace).




Some ideas I am playing with are:

-An Arcane Rider specced for ranged - you give up spell combat (and spell strike) for an animal companion, but everything else would work the same as an eldritch archer - other than you also get the ability to teleport as a swift action. Since my main this run is a skald, having a pet who can benefit from rage on my archer would be nice.

-Domain-monkey cleric - wondering if an ecclesitheurge can be made to work (have tried with poor results but I may be missing something). I think Ecclesitheurge because they get their domain's spells just added as normal spells to their spellbook, so true strike, brilliant inspiration, etc. With divine power, eagle soul, +10 damage from destruction domain, +10 attack from madness, and maybe another +10 from good, some decent burst might be possible? It would probably be stronger as a monk-dipped melee, though, with geniekind stacking and elemental barrage.

-Hunter, Divine Hunter - gets a domain (reduced by 2 levels). Can take impossible domains. Would be almost like the Sanctified Slayer, minus the studied target and sneak attack, but plus a pet, and you get the 1-6 level domain spells. They have druid spells, but I figure you could get the divine power spell via the War or Glory domains. Free pet, which can smite evil. A lot to like, but just not sure how I would get high (ranged) damage output on this class since it kind of lacks features that work on ranged damage and could compete with say greater bane, arcane weapon, and sneak attack. (Aspect of the Falcon is obsolete pretty fast, hurricane bow is like +1.5 damage per hit, and that's about it).




Anyway that's just some of my thoughts. Hoping someone can suggest a class/ build I haven't tried or thought of for a strong ranged DPS.

[Mork]

A simple Mutation Warrior archer level 20.

[provokastoras]

hm I would advise against trying to finish it in unfair with a ranged character.
Areelu receives half damage from all physical attacks then applies 25-30? dont remember points of damage reduction to it. I don't remember if she was immune to criticals as well, but she is immune to flanking so.... no sneaking on her neither. just build something else? Provided you ll need to do 3 -5k damage to her to finish the fight since she self heals 3 times, and then spawns a number of clones if you fail your persuasion check it really seems more trouble that is worth.
I beat her with a kinetist, also killed her with some fire caster builds. spamming hellfire rays.
In all they made areelu all but invincible for ranged physical characters. melee characters seen to be able to dish out some damage. (thats why they give you three archers in the game. I guess the idea is to go fight her with all three of them and fail)

[atm]

Originally posted by provokastoras:

hm I would advise against trying to finish it in unfair with a ranged character.
Areelu receives half damage from all physical attacks then applies 25-30? dont remember points of damage reduction to it. I don't remember if she was immune to criticals as well, but she is immune to flanking so.... no sneaking on her neither. just build something else? Provided you ll need to do 3 -5k damage to her to finish the fight since she self heals 3 times, and then spawns a number of clones if you fail your persuasion check it really seems more trouble that is worth.
I beat her with a kinetist, also killed her with some fire caster builds. spamming hellfire rays.
In all they made areelu all but invincible for ranged physical characters. melee characters seen to be able to dish out some damage. (thats why they give you three archers in the game. I guess the idea is to go fight her with all three of them and fail)

Ah, some good points here. I haven't quite gotten to her, since I like to leave the last bit of the game unfinished to I have a reason to start again :D (Although now that the DLC is out I am set to finally win).
In my previous game, playing as a trickster, I had a mercenary I built that was able to deal well over 2500 damage single target per round using hellfire rays. Planning on going demon this time around, so that strat won't be as effective, but still probably the strongest damage you can do. (ETA: I stopped that game after I 1-shotted Deskari in Iz - meaning killed him with a single spell cast. I was like - OK there is no challenge left, time to try a different build).
As a side note, magus' prescient strike works with hellfire rays, so I have found that maguses make passable blasters if built a certain way. Unfortunately their maximum L6 casting means its hard to impossible to get all the metamagic feats onto your hellfire rays very easily (you can do it with the magus arcanas but only 3x per rest). The upside though is that you can hit flat footed touch, which is generally very low AC. I figure any magus you build with range spec could double as a pretty effective hellfire ray blaster with a few feats put into it.

[The1Kobra]

I did have an idea for an archer build, bit unusual but it should work decently well:
3/16/1 Zen Archer/Ecclesitheurge Cleric/Arcane Enforcer

You get AC, AB, and spell DC on WIS. Angel path is optimal so you can get CL 26 cleric spells. You get 16 BAB, a full array of cleric buffs and offensives, so you can shoot and bring out the offensives when their AC is too high. Arcane Enforcer allows you to get self-cast archmage armor so you should have a very high AC with this build, so even as an archer you can tank well. Zen Archer should get you point blank mastery.

If you really want more offense, you can swap Arcane Enforcer with demonslayer for the +2 FE bonus, or even go 3/15/1/1, though that hits your CL a bit and doesn't up your BAB.

[atm]

Originally posted by The1Kobra:

I did have an idea for an archer build, bit unusual but it should work decently well:
3/16/1 Zen Archer/Ecclesitheurge Cleric/Arcane Enforcer

You get AC, AB, and spell DC on WIS. Angel path is optimal so you can get CL 26 cleric spells. You get 16 BAB, a full array of cleric buffs and offensives, so you can shoot and bring out the offensives when their AC is too high. Arcane Enforcer allows you to get self-cast archmage armor so you should have a very high AC with this build, so even as an archer you can tank well. Zen Archer should get you point blank mastery.

If you really want more offense, you can swap Arcane Enforcer with demonslayer for the +2 FE bonus, or even go 3/15/1/1, though that hits your CL a bit and doesn't up your BAB.

Thanks man, will see how I can fit it in. My main in this run is a skald but I need a solid ranged mercenary to stand behind him, and am trying to find some build I haven't tried before. I really love Ecclesitheurge, and it seems like there should be a way to build it for combat, since it is a 3/4 BAB class the same as other plainly combat based classes like rogues and magi, and has access to a bunch of abilities that should allow it to keep up with them. Trying to find a way to make it work!

[forkofspite]

If you're into easy builds, Zen Archer 20 (aeon 10) made this game simple on Core difficulty. Keep Finnean and a backup weapon to use against undead / constructs.

As an example, my aeon zen archer (level 18, rank 8 at the time) killed all of the enemies in Greybor's Act 5 quest with a single full attack. Granted, that was a bit of an anomaly (5 crits plus 2 hits), but there was zero challenge in Act 5.

[The1Kobra]

Pairing Ecclesitheurge with Zen Archer makes sense, Ecclesitheurge can't cast in armor but with monk you can still get AC unarmored, Zen Archer gets longbow proficiency and WIS to attack on bows, so it fits very nicely together.

The build I suggested works best for a main character, especially because of angel merged casting, but it should work fine as a merc if you need a healer and shooter.

I find that Kineticist works well for mercs, admittedly. There's not a lot of specific paths that boost their blasts, while the Zen Archer/Ecclesitheurge combo gets a huge buff from going Angel.

Another build I came up with, if you're looking for a pure Shooter merc: 5 Demonslayer, 12 Sohei, 1 Arcane Enforcer, 2 Remaining. Same Archmage armor trick as before, Demonslayer gives +4 AB/Damage vs demons, and 12 Sohei gets +2 weapon training on bows, and the flurry gets +2 attacks, and I'm pretty sure Sohei's extra attacks stack with rapid shot unlike Flurry of blows, so with haste, you're looking at 8 Shots per round. Could also use a crossbow if you want to. Gets a solid animal companion as well. Less room for AB buffs, though, so it won't have the highest AB, so may have trouble against boss enemies and other foes with high AC. Also with this combo, you won't have WIS AB, so go DEX based instead.

[Babbles]

I did Kingmaker on Unfair with an Eldritch Archer several times, 1 level Sacred Hunts Master to get a pet to help with early game, 1 level Vivi to abuse the living ♥♥♥♥ out of the system, 8 EA, 10 Eldritch Knight ... worked fine, even on Unfair.

[gmwaddington]

I'm no optimization expert, and haven't played on unfair. But I would think that an Inquisitor of Erastil might be a starting point.

[razvedchiki]

cant go wrong with fighter, full bab with weapon training. since you are on unfair you should avoid 3/4 bab classes.

[Astral Projection]

Not Hunter. A non max BAB archer is bad at end game.

My first run through the game was ranged Slayer Deliverer which had some real nice damage.

[atm]

Originally posted by Astral Projection:

Not Hunter. A non max BAB archer is bad at end game.

My first run through the game was ranged Slayer Deliverer which had some real nice damage.

The hunter I was considering was the one that gets cleric domains. That would grant him +6 attack from divine power, +9 from visions of madness, and +9 from touch of good, for +24 self buffed attack at L20 (and that probably isn't even everything he could be doing). Admittedly he could also put two of those buffs onto a fighter, but considering the fighter would have 5 more BAB, and couldn't get the +6 from divine power, the fighter still comes off slightly behind.
Slayer deliverer is sweet, though, and I hadn't thought of taking a Slayer. Will see what I can put together :D

[atm]

OK just an update. I sold myself on the divine hunter, and wow is he nuts in ways I wasn't even expecting. Made him to replace Wenduag, and boy does he do that and then some. The party is L8, and I am finding some cool (maybe bugged?) interactions.

-Luck domain - took this since its advanced ability comes online at L6, and since his level is 2 behind with regards to domains I figured this would be the one to start with. When he pops luck his longbow has nearly a 20% crit chance.

-Smiting pet - bugged? Took a dog for the pet, and it is the most OP pet I have ever had. It appears to have unlimited smites, and although it has no charisma to speak of, it gains its level to damage on every hit. To make it crazier, acid maw also gains the smite bonus separately, and when I have skald rage with beast totem up, the dog gains 1 extra bite and 2 extra claw attacks, for 6 attacks (with haste) per round at L8, all of which gain +8 damage from its unlimited smites, and half of which also proc acid maw which gains another +8 damage per hit on top of that. At L20 that pet will be a murder machine. (Edit: Also, I think firebrand procs as a separate hit as well so could add another 20 smite damage to each hit, for as much as +60 bonus damage).
As if that wasn't enough, with Furious Fall and the Trip feat from the Bully line, it can trip most things, and since most of its attacks are bites, it has a lot of chances per round to trip its target.

-Built-in +4 str/dex belt - the animal aspects grant the pet +4 str and dex at L8, and the hunter gets the bonuses for up to 8 minutes (realistically 8 fights). Will obviously be obsolete once we get +4 physical perfection belts, but that is quite a while away.

-True strike as a L1 spell from domain - can already cast this and a couple of nice bonus spells from the domain. Expecting to take Glory domain for Divine Power later on (war would be better but it appears to be bugged). So far he basically has all the spells of a ranger/druid and everything that matters from a cleric (and true strike from a wizard).

-Sneak attack via sense vitals - for when burst matters.

-Eventual impossible domains - good will give him +9 to attack and a holy weapon buff (although debating this one since it won't stack with guarded hearth), destruction would give him (and his mega smiting pet) up to +9 damage per hit (at L20 pet would be getting +29 damage per hit on a smited target, +58 if you count the acid maw procs). Madness would get +9 to attack, saves, or skill checks (or use on enemies to lower their saves :D).

Pretty sure this guy is going to leave Wenduag in the dust once his build starts coming together.

[corisai]

As I understand - only throwers could do actual damage, bow users are highly inferior to melee & hellfire beam (even after it was fixed).

[Conquista]

i would recommend a demonslayer, wotr is probably the best campaign to play paladin or ranger because of the limited enemy typ