sumonning spells are useless

[thkiwow]

it's something that kingmaker aready has. you need to spend two rounds doing nothing to wait for a creature that is subpar for it's level. it's certainly useless.
if a sumonner could perma-summon at least two spells then it would be great, or at least USABLE. but as it is now, there is no point to sumonning. the beast won't block damage, because they'll be killed. they won't do damage. at most they'll serve as extras. it's honestly a bit sad.

[reprodukTOOOOOOOOOOOR]

ever heard of a term called "meat shield" ?

[thkiwow]

Originally posted by reprodukTOOOOOOOOR:

ever heard of a term called "meat shield" ?

you have to wait a round for them to appear, so no. and the meat shield will last maximum one extra round. so, again, no. maybe if you summon lots of them, but most monsters have a lot of attacks.

[fEEdEr]

Camellia laughs while solo unfair Playful Darkness with her summons.

[reprodukTOOOOOOOOOOOR]

Originally posted by thkiwow:

Originally posted by reprodukTOOOOOOOOR:

ever heard of a term called "meat shield" ?

you have to wait a round for them to appear, so no. and the meat shield will last maximum one extra round. so, again, no. maybe if you summon lots of them, but most monsters have a lot of attacks.

then summon them before battle

[Invisible]

I have great success with the tankard of free spirit and the "angel path" spritit paladins. But summon extraplanar dogs, is not my style.

[Invisible]

Originally posted by reprodukTOOOOOOOOR:

Originally posted by thkiwow:

you have to wait a round for them to appear, so no. and the meat shield will last maximum one extra round. so, again, no. maybe if you summon lots of them, but most monsters have a lot of attacks.

then summon them before battle

Is the meata magic "extent" viable for summoning spells?

[Altihex]

I've had excellent success using Animate Dead, specially with Daeran. See, that spell summons 3-6 Skeletons. All of which can be automatically buffed with the The Covenant of the Inheritor so their weapons are good aligned and count as cold iron. But that's not their point, they are cheap body blockers with a cheap cost that appear automatically in the same round and act immediately.Do they die? Summon them again. Do they die next round? Summon them again! Drown your enemies with a wall of bones while your DPS kills them. Works pretty well for most fights. Most enemies cant move AND attack, so they burn the entire round killing them Boney Bois, and then Daeran summons them again. Majestic.

[thkiwow]

Originally posted by Invisible:

Originally posted by reprodukTOOOOOOOOR:

then summon them before battle

Is the meata magic "extent" viable for summoning spells?

yes. but the point here is that unless you're high level, the base for summoning spells won't allow them to stay long. on top of that,creatures only stand one hit before being unsummoned. and you have to wait a round before they act, and you cannot cast summoning spells and move at the same round, and the summons are weak and won't do much damage.

with the current amount of nerfs for summons, the only way this could work is if it's 1 min/level instead of 1round/level. or you have to increase the level of summons at least by two. otherwise summoning is useless. it's mostly a niche addition, and you cannot do anything with it.

the summoning you get from the mythic path is not 1 round/level. it's usually for a minute, and it's pretty powerful as well.

[thkiwow]

Originally posted by Altihex:

I've had excellent success using Animate Dead, specially with Daeran. See, that spell summons 3-6 Skeletons. All of which can be automatically buffed with the The Covenant of the Inheritor so their weapons are good aligned and count as cold iron. But that's not their point, they are cheap body blockers with a cheap cost that appear automatically in the same round and act immediately.Do they die? Summon them again. Do they die next round? Summon them again! Drown your enemies with a wall of bones while your DPS kills them. Works pretty well for most fights. Most enemies cant move AND attack, so they burn the entire round killing them Boney Bois, and then Daeran summons them again. Majestic.

animate dead is the only summoning spell in the game that's not completely useless. they act well as meat shields.
still, create undead is mostly useless. it's too weak to do anything. and they (the undead) will never land a hit.

however, with angel and lich at level eigteen with greater enduring spells with extend you can make them permanant. and lich has flay for purpose which works well.

if they can increase the level by two to compenstate for the round/level instead of min/level, it won't be useless. but as it is - it's pretty useless.

you could also have a set number of summoned companions, which also wouldn't make this useless. like number of them per level. one for first level, and 9 for 18th level.

[reprodukTOOOOOOOOOOOR]

Originally posted by thkiwow:

Originally posted by Invisible:

Is the meata magic "extent" viable for summoning spells?

yes. but the point here is that unless you're high level, the base for summoning spells won't allow them to stay long. on top of that,creatures only stand one hit before being unsummoned.

the one round your summon is being hit is a one round you or your party member is not hit...

you can beat a playful darkness which is one of the most powerfull bosses in the game just by surrounding it with some skelly boys every round and spam it to death with healing spells or if you have some powerfull wizard with ranged touch spells

[thkiwow]

Originally posted by reprodukTOOOOOOOOR:

Originally posted by thkiwow:

yes. but the point here is that unless you're high level, the base for summoning spells won't allow them to stay long. on top of that,creatures only stand one hit before being unsummoned.

the one round your summon is being hit is a one round you or your party member is not hit

you can cast ten different cc spells for it.
and it'll be one round AFTER you've cast the spell. in which the enemy will simply skip over the beast and attack something else. and once he had already ignored the summon it will keep ignoring them and attack your party. so you need to be lucky for that to happen. animate undead doesn't suck, but it's a niche spell with little to no purpose. it was only mildly useful, and it's one of the best summoning spell in th egame.

[Xef]

Usefulness of summons largely depends on the difficulty. On Unfair they're far from useless.

[fEEdEr]

Originally posted by thkiwow:

Originally posted by Invisible:

Is the meata magic "extent" viable for summoning spells?

yes. but the point here is that unless you're high level, the base for summoning spells won't allow them to stay long. on top of that,creatures only stand one hit before being unsummoned. and you have to wait a round before they act, and you cannot cast summoning spells and move at the same round, and the summons are weak and won't do much damage.

with the current amount of nerfs for summons, the only way this could work is if it's 1 min/level instead of 1round/level. or you have to increase the level of summons at least by two. otherwise summoning is useless. it's mostly a niche addition, and you cannot do anything with it.

the summoning you get from the mythic path is not 1 round/level. it's usually for a minute, and it's pretty powerful as well.

You can always use less extend rod which you can buy as early as level 3 . And extend metamagic rod(which can be a little tricky to get).
On turn-based mode ,my skellies always act right after the summoners turn. This could be a bug though.

[Moss]

summon spells a must on harder diffs! augment summ and ascendent summ plus items make them better like the brazen whip etc.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by fEEdEr:

On turn-based mode ,my skellies always act right after the summoners turn. This could be a bug though.

That's how it works for me too, at least on 1.2 beta.

There's a reason Inspiring Leader mythic is recommended for some builds/characters. Having a Skald also helps a lot. Give those skeletors massive AC bonus and Haste.

Now, the only kind of summon I've found useless are the singular summoned creatures such as Graveknight. They are not really worth spell slot in most cases, but summoning multiple creatures usually serves the spell's purpose perfectly. Depends on encounter. If enemies lack damage resistance, summoning half a dozen skeletors or manticores can easily deal more damage than another spell of equal level.