Hellknight Signifier

[Gorwe]

Right, I want this for my playthrough, but I'm torn on which class to choose. I want it mostly to be a blaster(AoE damage). My current options are:

Arcanist: I could use Brown Fur to hyper charge buffs to have more than simple Haste / Fireball combo.

Priest of Balance: Yeah, this could get ridiculous and I could save TWO party slots(Sosiel and, somewhat, Nenio), but no Haste? Eh...?

Purifier: Yes, this is very close to what I want, but does a Divine Caster benefit from a Signifier even half as much as Arcane caster does? Also, no Haste.

Wizard: I feel like I lose the least by choosing this, save up on a party slot of a character I don't care about anyhow(Nenio) and it provides more than just Blasts. But no healing etc. Meaning that my party lineup is actually more stringent than with, say, Priest of Balance.

///

Any advice about this?

[El_Bastardo]

Wizard Elemental specialist, chose any element, get ascended element mythic trait for the same one. This means any spell deals Fire damage (if you chose fire), and you ignore Fire dmg reduction (if you also chose ascended fire) - you can ofc do it with any other element.
Upside: you are not limited to spells of your chosen element, but every spell just bypasses any DR.
Downside: you don't wanna use up your precious spell slots for buffs, so you'd need another arcane caster for haste etc.

I'd recommend Trickster path, bc you can get a special metamagic that lowers the spell level by 1, i.e. you can use lvl 1 spells like snowball or ear piercing scream (which gets kinda nice with the amulet) infinitely or use Stormbolts (massive selective aoe with stun) for lvl 7 AND 8 spell slots. also you don't "waste" slots for shield/mage armor bc they get down to 0 too, making them infinite. With abundant casting, this gives you an insane amount of spells per day, and you can even combine it with other metamagic, meaning an empowered spell (+2 to level) would only be +1 to level.
Along with that, you get a court poet for even more spell buffs (has a song that buffs int and caster level), also 2nd arcane caster for buffs and some heals and your main character will be a monster.
But this would mean your party consists of your MC, a bard and a divine caster, using up 3 slots already.

I have this exact setup going in my kinda 2nd playthrough (without signifier though) and the caster character is a freaking beast. And this is not even an optimized build (e.g. has no sneak attack for touch spells etc).

The Trickster Metamagic "Completely normal spell" that loweres the spell level (just slot, not power) is also available for EVERY companion. This effectively means that all casters can use ALL their spells as if they were 1 slot lower, meaning you have infinite cure light wounds for after combat heals, infinite shield of faith etc etc. BUT the "Completely Normal Spells" somehow turn into a full round action, meaning you can't use them after moving, i don't know if that is a bug or intended, but i thought i'd mention it. IMHO it's a small price to pay for the massive spell slinging it provides. Also you apparently can't queue a e.g. lvl 0 Snowball spell as standard attack action, kinda forcing you into turn based mode.

Well, that kinda escalated, but i'm just very excited for this "build" (it's not even a build per se, just some fun things combined) ;)

[Drake]

Trickster with signifer is going to be difficult to hold with the alignment restriction.

[El_Bastardo]

Originally posted by Drake:

Trickster with signifer is going to be difficult to hold with the alignment restriction.

That is true though. But it's also even more delicious chaos.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by El_Bastardo:

Wizard Elemental specialist, chose any element, get ascended element mythic trait for the same one. This means any spell deals Fire damage (if you chose fire), and you ignore Fire dmg reduction (if you also chose ascended fire) - you can ofc do it with any other element.
Upside: you are not limited to spells of your chosen element, but every spell just bypasses any DR.
Downside: you don't wanna use up your precious spell slots for buffs, so you'd need another arcane caster for haste etc.

I'd recommend Trickster path, bc you can get a special metamagic that lowers the spell level by 1, i.e. you can use lvl 1 spells like snowball or ear piercing scream (which gets kinda nice with the amulet) infinitely or use Stormbolts (massive selective aoe with stun) for lvl 7 AND 8 spell slots. also you don't "waste" slots for shield/mage armor bc they get down to 0 too, making them infinite. With abundant casting, this gives you an insane amount of spells per day, and you can even combine it with other metamagic, meaning an empowered spell (+2 to level) would only be +1 to level.
Along with that, you get a court poet for even more spell buffs (has a song that buffs int and caster level), also 2nd arcane caster for buffs and some heals and your main character will be a monster.
But this would mean your party consists of your MC, a bard and a divine caster, using up 3 slots already.

I have this exact setup going in my kinda 2nd playthrough (without signifier though) and the caster character is a freaking beast. And this is not even an optimized build (e.g. has no sneak attack for touch spells etc).

The Trickster Metamagic "Completely normal spell" that loweres the spell level (just slot, not power) is also available for EVERY companion. This effectively means that all casters can use ALL their spells as if they were 1 slot lower, meaning you have infinite cure light wounds for after combat heals, infinite shield of faith etc etc. BUT the "Completely Normal Spells" somehow turn into a full round action, meaning you can't use them after moving, i don't know if that is a bug or intended, but i thought i'd mention it. IMHO it's a small price to pay for the massive spell slinging it provides. Also you apparently can't queue a e.g. lvl 0 Snowball spell as standard attack action, kinda forcing you into turn based mode.

Well, that kinda escalated, but i'm just very excited for this "build" (it's not even a build per se, just some fun things combined) ;)

Wouldn't this lose to Priest of Balance though? That thing can get its Channels really going. AND it has Healing. But! It don't have Grease / Pit etc.

I also have to choose the Mythic Path, obviously. Balance is more...Aeon and FIRE! is more Angel. The thing is that I want a Signifier and this leads me more towards Aeon. But...Angel? /shrug

I'll have to think about this. Refine my vision if you would.

As for the Trickster, I already have a character planned for that. Veil Witch + Trickster should go hand in hand.

[Gorwe]

Basically what it all comes down to is: Haste / CC vs Cleric(Divine) stuff.

[Drake]

My signifer is wizard (conjurer) and mythic aeon (switched to devil). Wizard is the one benefitting the most from signifer (mainly from the arcane spell failure reduction and the later immunities), while losing the least (you lose 2 feats, other classes lose a lot more class mechanics).

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Drake:

My signifer is wizard (conjurer) and mythic aeon (switched to devil). Wizard is the one benefitting the most from signifer (mainly from the arcane spell failure reduction and the later immunities), while losing the least (you lose 2 feats, other classes lose a lot more class mechanics).

This is exactly my line of thinking. And I lose an annoying companion. But why not Arcanist?

[Conquista]

any reason you don't consider sorcerer? crossblooded should help with blasting alot

[Gorwe]

Well, if only I could somehow respec Seelah into a Hospitaler. Not only does it fit her better, but it would also fit the entire party better. Ofc, that'd make Sos in particular quite meh, but...if only. Didn't see anything like it in Toybox.

Aeon, Hellknight, Lawful Neutral(more towards Good)...idk, this sounds rather PoB to me. Ofc, Grease and Haste...oh ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥! There's gotta be a proper solution for this!

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Conquista:

any reason you don't consider sorcerer? crossblooded should help with blasting alot

Crossblooded? That's ultra hardcore. Besides, aren't you shooting yourself in the foot if you go Dual Class as a Crossblood? But, like, really. Because spell progress is really hardcore.

[Conquista]

your spell selection will be limited but you can add more dice to your elemental spells

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Conquista:

your spell selection will be limited but you can add more dice to your elemental spells

Will be SUPER limited! But, yeah, that dice will be almost loaded.

[Stink Bug]

If you’re agonizing over divine or arcane, why not consider witch with the agility patron? The spell-list isn’t as good as as wiz/sorc/arcan but you’ll benefit from the ASF abilities and get a bunch of cleric spells including the ever important Death Ward and Heal.

[Balekai]

I tested out a Seeker Sorcerer/Signifier with the Aeon/Devil setup. Not an actual playthrough though (I just used some mods).

First of and as mentioned by others: A required lawful alignment class in a Trickster playthrough may have some issues. If you do go Trickster I would get my Signifier levels done ASAP before you (I think) get locked into chaotic alignments only.

Seeker sorcerer (and oracle seeker) are great for making up feat losses from multiclassing or just getting tons of spellcasting feats and trickery bonus in full progression builds. I favour this over crossblooded since you can replicate its functionality by taking a second bloodline with mythic abilities.

If you go the Aeon/Devil path you want to specialize for sure in fire spells and take appropriate normal/mythic feats, because you have unlimited use Hellfire Ray that uses your character level for casting. With extra seeker feats you can take some ranged attack bonus feats to buff it.

You also have unlimited use of high level enchantment spells too like Overwhelming Presence and Powerword: Kill. With some mythic expanded school + item abuse you can get some pretty high DCs here (40-50+), while having evocation as your secondary/auto attack thing. With undead bloodline and/or serpentine bloodline, you can make these spells effect undead or monstrous humanoids.

The reduced arcane spell failure stuff from signifier/order of the gate is a great way to rock Iron Body spell and just use Archmage Armor instead of plate. In addition, if you take sorcerer (and/or devil with unlimited cast spells), its a lot easier to take the enduring spells line for 24 hour buffs instead of abundant line.

Iron Body

This spell transforms your body into living iron, which grants you several powerful resistances and abilities. You gain damage reduction 15/adamantine. You are immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, disease, drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this spell is in effect. You have acid and fire resistance 30.

You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your Strength score, but you take a -6 penalty to Dexterity as well (to a minimum Dexterity score of 1), and your speed is reduced to half normal. You have an arcane spell failure chance of 35% and a -6 armor check penalty, just as if you were clad in full plate armor.

Your unarmed attack deals damage equal to a club sized for you (1d4 for Small characters or 1d6 for Medium characters), and you are considered armed when making unarmed attacks.

Does pretty much the same thing as Ice/Fiery Body, but with 15 DR adamantine and plate penalties instead of two elemental immunities and one elemental vulnerability.

NOTE: The Gate Order doesn't add the proper bonus to spell failure reduction right now. That can only be done manually via Toy Box, by taking the appropriate gate feature feats that the game is not adding to your hellknight or signifier characters on level up.

[B Unit]

For Hellknight Signifier I would go into it from an arcane caster for sure to get the most benefit. Fixing arcane casters trash BAB progression and Arcane Spell Failure reduction primarily.