Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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So far, the Aeon path is just badly written and it makes me sad (early stages)...
From a purely story, theme perspective, I think Owlcat may have royally screwed up Aeon.

First, you are upholding mortal or cosmic laws, or both? If mortal...aren't I the one that sets the rules as the Commander?! If cosmic...what are the laws?

But that's not the example. My example is "judging" people with no actual evidence. Like being able to kick party members (Lawfully) out with no evidence. What is this? My dad is a lawyer, so let me tell you, I grew up with Lawful Neutral. And the law is ALL about due diligence - innocent until proven guilty. So an Aeon making a judgement without evidence is a bad Aeon.

Or is that the point? I am learning the ways of the Aeon?
Last edited by SoundsOfNight; Nov 5, 2021 @ 6:53pm
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
ExcaliburV Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:00pm 
Kicking party members out isn't really punishing them for a crime. I mean yeah, you do the whole "I banish you from the crusade", but you can kick anyone out of your party at any time normally too. The reason why it's lawful for the Aeon is because you inherently know that they've broken a law, and not tolerating the presence of lawbreakers is generally lawful.

And most of the actual trials, you do have evidence.

In the first trial you find the perpetrators committing the crime red-handed. In the second, you do have to go find evidence. In the third, you get the perpetrator to confess. Same for the fourth. In the fifth, the perpetrator confesses willingly and there's a whole mess involved there.

Mind you, Aeon didn't sit completely right to me either, I would've preferred if they focused more on preserving the cosmic order instead of spending time on mortal laws. But I think the aeon conducts themselves... more or less reasonably.
Last edited by ExcaliburV; Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:00pm
SoundsOfNight Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:02pm 
Originally posted by ExcaliburV:
Kicking party members out isn't really punishing them for a crime. I mean yeah, you do the whole "I banish you from the crusade", but you can kick anyone out of your party at any time normally too. The reason why it's lawful for the Aeon is because you inherently know that they've broken a law, and not tolerating the presence of lawbreakers is generally lawful.

And most of the actual trials, you do have evidence.

In the first trial you find the perpetrators committing the crime red-handed. In the second, you do have to go find evidence. In the third, you get the perpetrator to confess. Same for the fourth. In the fifth, the perpetrator confesses willingly and there's a whole mess involved there.

Mind you, Aeon didn't sit completely right to me either, I would've preferred if they focused more on preserving the cosmic order instead of spending time on mortal laws. But I think the aeon conducts themselves... more or less reasonable.

That's a good summary. It's a shame, I knew it would be hard to make with the focus on "law" instead of balance, since balance is a natural and intuitive. I dunno, sounds like Azata is one of the better paths (already did Trickster).
ExcaliburV Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:15pm 
Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:
That's a good summary. It's a shame, I knew it would be hard to make with the focus on "law" instead of balance, since balance is a natural and intuitive. I dunno, sounds like Azata is one of the better paths (already did Trickster).

Yeah, it's kind of a shame how aeon is set up when you first encounter the Gaze, it makes it sound really cool and cosmic, and then you spend act 3 just being a standard judge.

Aeon does get good, I stand by that Aeon is my favorite path, the high points are incredibly high. But then, I haven't played angel or azata yet, so that's not completely informed either.

... Aeon still has the best soundtrack though. Absolute banger.
Last edited by ExcaliburV; Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:15pm
SoundsOfNight Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:17pm 
Hmm I will stick with it then, thx!
Conquista Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:36pm 
most of the time you uphold the local law and if you do that good enough you are allowed to do some cosmic law stuff, just view the local law part as law school and if you ace the test you are allowed to use more of your reality changing aeon powers
Last edited by Conquista; Nov 5, 2021 @ 7:36pm
Gracey Face Nov 5, 2021 @ 8:37pm 
Every mythic path is badly written, and there's quite a few times when characters will act as if you did something that you didn't on top of that.

Lich for example; if you choose the lich options to resolve a certain situation then that causes your undead thalls, who are completely under your control, to wipe out all life in an area despite you not giving them that order. Or later on all of your crusade staff leave you because you're evil and you did an evil thing, despite you not having done the evil thing and the evil thing being the fault of the queen and not actually having anything to do with you, which they all know because they're the ones who asked you to resolve it in the first place.

I saw someone who suspected that the writing is awful in English because the dev is Russian and the story was originally written in Russian and the translation wasn't very good. It's the only thing that makes any kind of sense to me so I would bet on that being the case.

Though it occurs to me, I say every mythic path but in reality the entire game is poorly written. The Queen for example is the most evil character in the entire game, but you never get a chance to call it out (I think you get a couple of opportunities to make snide remarks and that's as close as it gets) and then killing her is labelled as an evil action, despite the fact that by the time you do it she's got thousands or possibly even tens of thousands of people killed just to make herself feel important..? But despite all this she is still considered a good character and has the direct patronage of a good god. It makes no sense.
Last edited by Gracey Face; Nov 5, 2021 @ 9:12pm
Wormlore Nov 6, 2021 @ 1:27am 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
The Queen for example is the most evil character in the entire game, but you never get a chance to call it out.
I don't think she's really evil. Just incompetent. She definitely has her moments of failure that leads her to a few evil choices, but I don't think anyone in the game is a perfect human being.

Now, Hulrun, that's someone I find to be true Evil paving his road with (somewhat) good intentions.

I like the idea that Mythic Paths integrate into it instead of just being a set of combat mechanics. However, I do find the story to be overall badly written. More exactly, the story overall is fine but the important NPC are just extremely dumb and/or inconsistent.

The Queen in particular: she first explains that she chose you as Knight Commander - despite all the reasons *not* to do it (little to no known background, literally questionable morality, no particular example of leadership beyond a 6-man team) - because she needs to "roll the dice" to get a gain in the campaign against the demons... Then later explains that she removes the Knight Commander who brought multiple successes from command because "she can't afford to make any mistake". (Though, granted, she mostly says that to cover for a bout of jealousy, which itself is a weak written scenaristic excuse to justify transition to chapter 4 and the state of affairs in chapter 5.) Other things are similarly signs of weak character rather than evil.

Then again, she perfectly represent her divine patron as Iomade gives you a pretty similar BS speech later on. (Then again, that's a badly written excuse to unlock the Legend Path.)

So, bad writing is used to force the MC into the story. That's nothing new in video games, but is more obvious in RPGs with branching storylines.
kaymarciy Nov 6, 2021 @ 2:16am 
Yup. Aeon is supposed to be the embodiment of True Neutrality and balance. And instead you are forced to be Lawful Murderous and not even get any decent abilities in return. His entire "you break laws" schtik makes no sense. A proper "candidate to Aeon" would treat Drezen as a little world and keep balance inside - raise up Chaos (burglars, thief's guild, conspiraces) in places with too much Order and vica versa. Completely disregarding any mortal laws. 4th Act is even worse - what's the deal with "find a represantative of law to uphold the law in the place with no laws"? This entire path looks like a bad fanfic on the first volume of the "Diaries of Crazy Lich" novel. Greatest disappointment of the game.

And we don't even get a good Banishment ability. And Rectify State doesn't fix Baleful Polymorph. And Suppress Mythic has DC of like 20. And the Slow from his cloak is DC 15. And his Bane doesn't stack with Bane from Crusader's Edge. It's so bad...

But the soundtrack is worth it.

But to be frank I have pretty much the same opinion on Azata and Trickster paths. Trickster is supposed to be a Fey of the First World, wild and unpredictable thing like the Eldest from Kingmaker, but we get a comic clown. Somebody on the forum called Trickster "fishmalk" and it's 146% correct description. As for Azata, instead of valiant heroes from epic tales we get a Fairy WinX with Her Little Pony Dragon. Meh.
Last edited by kaymarciy; Nov 6, 2021 @ 2:29am
Serendipitous Nov 6, 2021 @ 3:09am 
Originally posted by kaymarciy:
. And the Slow from his cloak is DC 15.
That may be, but constant haste in combat is still pretty powerful if you ask me. I'd say at least cloak has pretty good abilities if you compare it to other mythic cloaks.

But overall, yeah, Aeon was such a disappointment. The game doesn't have a particularly good writing, so my expectations weren't high, but it managed to fail even them. The only good thing about it is music theme, which is one of the best among other mythic paths. Music is really high point of this game.

Somebody on the forum called Trickster "fishmalk" and it's 146% correct description.

That may have been me :)

As for Azata, instead of valiant heroes from epic tales we get a Fairy WinX with Her Little Pony Dragon

I just call Azata path a Saturday Morning Cartoon Central. Basically an incarnate of those kids cartoons from 80s, it even has a Scrappy.
Last edited by Serendipitous; Nov 6, 2021 @ 3:13am
Gracey Face Nov 6, 2021 @ 3:11am 
Originally posted by Wormlore:
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
The Queen for example is the most evil character in the entire game, but you never get a chance to call it out.
I don't think she's really evil. Just incompetent. She definitely has her moments of failure that leads her to a few evil choices, but I don't think anyone in the game is a perfect human being.

Admittedly not sure if this is worth spoilering as you learn all of it pretty quickly in the narrative but I may as well.
When your incompetence lasts for a century because you purposefully break the culture of the city-state you rule to completely depend on you to the point where they pour unfathomable amounts of money into buying a stream of youth potions for you while at the same time you send tens of thousands of your city-state's youths to their pointless deaths in a war that is beyond your capability to command, and you keep this going by choice, you are evil by your own "standard" (which is knowingly inflicting suffering) and there's no two ways about it.
Quacksalber Nov 6, 2021 @ 3:18am 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
Originally posted by Wormlore:
I don't think she's really evil. Just incompetent. She definitely has her moments of failure that leads her to a few evil choices, but I don't think anyone in the game is a perfect human being.

Admittedly not sure if this is worth spoilering as you learn all of it pretty quickly in the narrative but I may as well.
When your incompetence lasts for a century because you purposefully break the culture of the city-state you rule to completely depend on you to the point where they pour unfathomable amounts of money into buying a stream of youth potions for you while at the same time you send tens of thousands of your city-state's youths to their pointless deaths in a war that is beyond your capability to command, and you keep this going by choice, you are evil by your own "standard" (which is knowingly inflicting suffering) and there's no two ways about it.
Even without that knowledge, she banishes a child (Ember) to the abyss. {spoiler]
Gracey Face Nov 6, 2021 @ 4:41am 
Originally posted by EH!:
Even without that knowledge, she banishes a child (Ember) to the abyss.

A thing to keep in mind is that elven children like ember aren't actually children as we think of them. They're more along the lines of naive college age kids. They age at the same rate as humans (roughly), but are considered children for longer because elven culture doesn't consider people adults until they have various life goals under their belt.

So while she does do that, she's not really banishing a child as we know it. That's actually one of the ways this game is poorly written, they go really hard on making her seem
childish as in very young, even though she's a century old and that's not how elves work and if elves did work that way they couldn't survive as a species.
Last edited by Gracey Face; Nov 6, 2021 @ 4:41am
Kel'Ithra Nov 6, 2021 @ 4:44am 
My Azata's experience with Galfrey was terrible, worst than my Demon had, until act 5. But my Azata felt used, hated and envied to the point of trying to get her killed, through that play through. She really was treated worst than my Demon, it's like they where secretly hoping my character was just slightly tempted, but it wasn't the power that drove her to become a demon, it was them early and how she was generally treated or seen others treating those they where supposedly fighting for, Hurlun even Galfrey to an extent drove her to it during act 2 think Anivia and Iribeth where the only honest people in act 2. But my Azata, Galfrey seemed like she had it for her in every bad and evil way imaginable, I'm assuming she's a fighter, there's no way she's a paladin, either that or Iomedae's standards are extremely low. But yeah so far I'd say Azata has it the roughest with Galfrey, hell she got along, to a degree with my act 3 demon had had misgivings in act 5, non of that towards my Azata, it was oh ♥♥♥♥ she's alive here's your rank... the minute she sees her in act 5.

And I think I got the Tyrant Galfrey slide...

Also my Azata ascended and she was loved way more than Galfrey was in the end, Mendev seemed to have been embracing her so openly as a new Diety/demigod that it must of made Galfrey afraid, hell even Nocti was afraid at the end, she entrenched herself in her realm expecting non demon's to assault her realm. And I think the World wound was stable in that ending, Connecting only to my Azata's Elysium realm's in the Abyss (Thanks Deskari and Bapho for the free real estate.) and Nocti's realm. But Galfrey was not a likeable person in my Azata play through very jealous, envious and afraid of my Azata. [Spoiler}

But I loved my Azata play through, laughed so much and Aivu... she steals the scene sometimes, a real cookie monster. Also your character seems to resemble more like Desna,

It's her that gives you the stone when you accidentally appear in Elysium her wings etc are kind of like the ones you grow etc. Think you kind of get your powers from her or your growth is influenced by her by accepting the stone. Also makes sense that it's her, since she's not one to stand back and watch. She's one of those that gets involved, until the other god's step in before she goes a wee bit too far. *Coughs* causing demon lord's to unite and threaten all out war because she got angry at them. *Coughs* [Spoilers]
Last edited by Kel'Ithra; Nov 6, 2021 @ 4:48am
Serendipitous Nov 6, 2021 @ 4:49am 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
Originally posted by EH!:
Even without that knowledge, she banishes a child (Ember) to the abyss.

A thing to keep in mind is that elven children like ember aren't actually children as we think of them. They're more along the lines of naive college age kids. They age at the same rate as humans (roughly), but are considered children for longer because elven culture doesn't consider people adults until they have various life goals under their belt.

So while she does do that, she's not really banishing a child as we know it. That's actually one of the ways this game is poorly written, they go really hard on making her seem
childish as in very young, even though she's a century old and that's not how elves work and if elves did work that way they couldn't survive as a species.
On the other hand her development is clearly stunted by trauma, so her mind is definitely that of a child even if regular elves would by more mature at her age.
Gracey Face Nov 6, 2021 @ 5:17am 
Originally posted by carashi:
On the other hand her development is clearly stunted by trauma, so her mind is definitely that of a child even if regular elves would by more mature at her age.

Her quest seems to have frozen for me after I executed the people who kidnapped her, so I don't know if this is something that happens later on in the game. If it is what happened to her initially, when she was put on a pyre (though that was Hulrun wasn't it?) then she wouldn't have been mentally stunted at that point. If it is something that Galfrey does after you rescue her in Iz then I also executed Galfrey the moment I saw her so...

But anyway assuming you're talking about the initial incident, they burned a witch in a city where witchcraft is an actual threat. That is actually a perfectly reasonable (if not necessarily good, it's lawful) act.
Last edited by Gracey Face; Nov 6, 2021 @ 5:19am
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Date Posted: Nov 5, 2021 @ 6:52pm
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