Buffs are boring

[haran.yakir]

This game has a LOT of buffs. Casting them at the start of every dungeon or before every boss fight is tedious and boring. But if I neglect doing that I'm going to have a hard time.

So basically I'm just complaining that buffs are a bad game mechanic.
IMO combat buffs should take a different form. They should be something that is only cast during combat and should be powerful enough that it's worth spending time in combat to actually cast them.

[Lywelyn]

yeah, erhm, or maybe the game mechanic is exactly how Crpgs are, and it's simply you that don't like Crpgs mechanics ?

[frogmoth]

Yeah, this is kind of a cumbersome relict from tabletop. But there is an easy solution for you: The Buffbot-mod. I'm actually the idiot that buffs manually most of the time (maybe this is a relict from playing BG and ID where you had to do that too), till later levels at least, where i can't stand it any more.

[Conquista]

domains, skald song and shared judgement, pretty good for incombat buffing
some of them you can prebuff, but games gives you option to make them easily useable for incombat buffing

[haran.yakir]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Yeah, this is kind of a cumbersome relict from tabletop. But there is an easy solution for you: The Buffbot-mod. I'm actually the idiot that buffs manually most of the time (maybe this is a relict from playing BG and ID where you had to do that too), till later levels at least, where i can't stand it any more.

Yeah I remember that one from PFKM. Very useful. Should have been incorporated into the main game. Reason I'm not installing it now is because every week we have an update that may conflict with mods

[frogmoth]

Pillars of Eternity 2 did what you are suggesting and i would take the system from Pathfinder anytime over the one in Deadfire. There the result of the convenience is a too balanced and too "wishy-washy" gameplay. At least in Pathfinder there is an impact to what you are doing, with the drawback that you can very easily break the game. (That's why one half of the players complains that the game is too hard, the other half that it's way too easy...)

[Super Xavior]

Originally posted by Lywelyn:

yeah, erhm, or maybe the game mechanic is exactly how Crpgs are, and it's simply you that don't like Crpgs mechanics ?

Comparing hating buff to hating the whole crpg mechanics is really stretch it. Ppl can like the whole game but hate a one/two factor with it all they want, i see nothing wrong with it.

And im sure no one like 10 minutes buffing every hour ( and yes, you need to do this on high difficulty, with story/normal or stuff just equip your characters with a stick and they can still win battles) , some are just used to do it that they dont bother complaining. To op, theres nothing you can do , they can't change the system. Your best bet is play on lower difficulty or install autobuff mod

[frogmoth]

I think there is a consensus among most (rational) players that since D&D was translated to PC it resulted in questionable game design from the perspective of the new medium, the vancian casting system is the worst culprit. To make it work better in the new medium you would need to reduce the number of trashmobs and design fewer and harder encounters overall.

[[SWE]Junker]

Originally posted by haran.yakir:

This game has a LOT of buffs. Casting them at the start of every dungeon or before every boss fight is tedious and boring. But if I neglect doing that I'm going to have a hard time.

So basically I'm just complaining that buffs are a bad game mechanic.
IMO combat buffs should take a different form. They should be something that is only cast during combat and should be powerful enough that it's worth spending time in combat to actually cast them.

Yeah, If you stand in a cave opening and circle trough all your buffs and in every corner after every fight , rest , buffs , heal , rince and repeat. You will then also get corruption and you will then also make a complain here that you think corruption is a terrible mechanic

It's also a warning sign that you maybe should lower your difficulty if you feel that you loose every fight without fully buffing every single time you enter a new room.

But you don't have to do that , you have 6 characthers some of them , maybe 2 should get a few handy buffs up during fights if you notice fire or something else . But as it stands popular opinion is that this is how you MUST play the game , there is really only a few buffs you cast on a daily basis and those are mage armor and a few more the rest should be applied when you need them .

To save spellslots for your mages you can invest in a few handy scrolls/wands to clear up your mages important spellslots

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Pillars of Eternity 2 did what you are suggesting and i would take the system from Pathfinder anytime over the one in Deadfire.

I personally prefer Deadfire approach much more in that regard. At least enemies don't start fully buffed (for the most part) just to counter player possibly prebuffing oneself, thus making the pre-buff mandatory.

[zpc]

@OP You could check out Solasta - they implemented DnD 5.1 instead of Pathfinder, and there the buff-problem was solved quite nicely (IMHO).

While WotR is awesome I acutally prefer Solasta for the game mechanics especially because your character builds matter a lot more then buffs (there are still buffs possible, but they aren't spamable as the caster has to use focus to keep the buff up).

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Pillars of Eternity 2 did what you are suggesting and i would take the system from Pathfinder anytime over the one in Deadfire.

I personally prefer Deadfire approach much more in that regard. At least enemies don't start fully buffed (for the most part) just to counter player possibly prebuffing oneself, thus making the pre-buff mandatory.

In THEORY i like the approach of Deadfire, but when playing it i either find it tedious and cumbersome (highest difficulty) or way to easy (anything below POTD). In WOTR the balancing is all over the place but at least the encounters feel snappy and to the point most of the time, even on higher difficulties.

[[SWE]Junker]

Originally posted by zpc:

@OP You could check out Solasta - they implemented DnD 5.1 instead of Pathfinder, and there the buff-problem was solved quite nicely (IMHO).

While WotR is awesome I acutally prefer Solasta for the game mechanics especially because your character builds matter a lot more then buffs (there are still buffs possible, but they aren't spamable as the caster has to use focus to keep the buff up).

The whole D&D 5E system is made so you don't need to do much of anything in that game for the most part, that is why people start to experience Pathfinder more and more for diversity between classes , but 5e is a tremendously popular product because of it's brand and will continue to be so, for me that system is very boring and you can hardly make any builds that is so much diffrent then any other build if you use the same class/race.

[haran.yakir]

Originally posted by zpc:

@OP You could check out Solasta - they implemented DnD 5.1 instead of Pathfinder, and there the buff-problem was solved quite nicely (IMHO).

While WotR is awesome I acutally prefer Solasta for the game mechanics especially because your character builds matter a lot more then buffs (there are still buffs possible, but they aren't spamable as the caster has to use focus to keep the buff up).

I did play that. And indeed pre buffing isn't really a thing there, which is good. But overall the game and its combat are not as interesting as WotR

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by SWEJunker:

The whole D&D 5E system is made so you don't need to do much of anything in that game for the most part

This sounds awful.

[zpc]

Originally posted by haran.yakir:

Originally posted by zpc:

@OP You could check out Solasta - they implemented DnD 5.1 instead of Pathfinder, and there the buff-problem was solved quite nicely (IMHO).

While WotR is awesome I acutally prefer Solasta for the game mechanics especially because your character builds matter a lot more then buffs (there are still buffs possible, but they aren't spamable as the caster has to use focus to keep the buff up).

I did play that. And indeed pre buffing isn't really a thing there, which is good. But overall the game and its combat are not as interesting as WotR

Fair enough - I enjoyed it a lot. Also, the turn-based combat does work there (prefer that mode but can't use it in WotR because it's just an attached mode there and not part of the game design).

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Originally posted by SWEJunker:

The whole D&D 5E system is made so you don't need to do much of anything in that game for the most part

This sounds awful.

It's IMHO an overstatement. Might be true for D&D 5E tabletop (which I wouldn't know) but the computer game implementation isn't boring at all. Again, IMHO.

@[SWE]Junker

I actually like e.g. the light mechanics. Playing clerics is a lot of fun (which is my main class when playing DnD games) and the interupt possibilities based on your character (shield / smite).