missing my paladin's second attack.

[johnrj6]

In the character sheet it shows that my guy has 2 attacks. He never does a second attack. The paladin is level 11 and has mythic cleave. My crazy gnome does 4 attacks as does my dwarf assassin. Even that oracle does 2 attacks but not my paladin. Any ideas?

[Mork]

Originally posted by johnrj6:

The paladin is level 11 and has mythic cleave.

Is cleave on auto use?

[GunStarX]

You should have 3 attacks as a level 11 paladin

[mreed2]

Yeah, Cleave in this game isn't the same thing as it was in D&D 3E, if you are familiar with that.

In this game, Cleave is an active ability that allows you to make one attack at full BAB against one target, and (if it hits) make another attack against a different target within range. It'll never give you more than two attacks, and that only if there are two targets within reach. If you activate Cleave, you forgo the other attacks that you qualify for due to having a high Base Attack Bonus.

In 3E D&D, Cleave was a passive ability that allows you to make another attack, at full BAB, against another target within reach if you killed your current target. This isn't very useful in Pathfinder / D&D 3.5 because you can re-target later attacks in your normal attack progression if the first attack kills a target. Sure, you don't get full BAB, but you may get more than one attack, and you don't have to spend a feat.

Greater Cleave, allows you to make unlimited extra attacks at full BAB, as long as all attacks hit, as long each target is next to the previous target, and you can still only hit each target once. I don't think Greater Cleave is in the game.

Mystic Cleave (which also isn't in the game) works the same as Greater Cleave, but eliminates the need for the next target to be adjacent to the previous target.

None of these are very good (even if they were all implemented) -- [Greater | Mystic] Cleave is only valuable when you are in melee combat against many low low level enemies. If they are high level, then either the Cleave attacks will miss or you'll end up doing some damage to many targets, but not killing any of them, and in Pathfinder (as most RPGs) a damaged target is just as dangerous as an undamaged target.

[Agent]

Cleave is just a feat tax for Cleaving Finish. Whether Cleaving Finish and Greater Cleaving Finish are worth the feat expenditures is a different question, but at least they aren't actively worse than nothing like Cleave mostly is.

[mreed2]

Originally posted by Agent:

Cleave is just a feat tax for Cleaving Finish. Whether Cleaving Finish and Greater Cleaving Finish are worth the feat expenditures is a different question, but at least they aren't actively worse than nothing like Cleave mostly is.

Ah, that's what I was looking for.

Yes, that's the "Cleave" feat that was in 3E. OK, it is still there, just moved back a step.

[johnrj6]

that it is I have been running him with cleave active