Enigma puzzle "disguised quantity"

[Agent]

So far I have really enjoyed the puzzles in WoTR and have found some of them easy and straightforward and some of them challenging but fun. However, this one puzzle in the Enigma place is killing me. The one with the 3x3 grid of symbols and the arrows you can rotate, with the clue about the quantity reflecting the disguised value.

I know I can just look up a picture of the solution and parrot it to move on but that blows. I want to solve the thing. But when I've tried to get a hint about how to go about solving it I find multiple, contradictory explanations for what the puzzle means and none of them seem particularly reasonable to me. One place says you have to go around and find the symbol hidden on the walls or whatever, another says you have to look at the number of times the symbol is in the puzzle itself (though this one doesn't seem like it can be right), another is similar but then says you have to invert ("reflect") that count. And so on.

Has anyone solved this by figuring out what the clue means and reasoning the answer, rather than looking up a picture of the solution? I can do that myself but I would really prefer to understand the puzzle and then solve it.

[Hailspork]

I made this thread a while back; sounds like you can add some insight to some of the other puzzles:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/3092275748070341137/

The best response I got on the arrows was:

Originally posted by Aradon:

4. Apparently you are supposed to count the number of times the symbols appear up until that point, and have a number of arrows pointing to that symbol equal to that number. I think it's actually number of lines, rather than arrows (so two arrows pointing towards each other would count once), but I basically just used a guide for ths one.

[JustSmile]

What you need to do to solve it is to count how many times each of the symbols in the grid has appeared in the Enigma decor until you found the puzzle and then point that number of arrows at each of the tiles. It's probably the most obscure tip/solution to a puzzle. I ended up looking up how to solve it too, it's just evil.

[Agent]

I mean, that's what I've read online. (The decor thing). But I don't see how that's possible. One of those symbols is all over the place. There aren't enough arrows to do it.

I think the decor thing was posted somewhere and everybody ran with it without actually checking. Or it's a mistranslation from another language. Or something.

[JustSmile]

It's not incorrect, actually. IIRC it's not all random instances of those symbols, it's when they are framed on the wall.

[Agent]

All symbols are framed on the wall one time, I've kept track and marked them on the map myself in photoshop.

[Agent]

https://i.imgur.com/c6wyugl.jpg

Here's the (almost entirely) revealed map with the framed wall symbols marked and the corresponding phrases listed, since I've been assuming I'll need those later. Each symbol occurs precisely one time, no more no less. I suppose its vaguely possible there are additional instances in the like two rooms I haven't unlocked but you need to solve the puzzle in question to get the stone things to open those rooms so seems unlikely.

[Agent]

Day 3: still no progress.

Never give up, never surrender.

[Agent]

Day 4: I solved this piece of **** puzzle. I hate you, puzzle.

Ok, I'm going to post the solution (as in, how you are supposed to arrive at the solution since the arrow directions have been correctly posted to the internet before.) Hopefully we can put to bed the dumb idea about counting decorations.

The way to solve this is to assign numbers 0-7 to the symbols that appear on the two arrow puzzles. Each symbol corresponds to a different number. You arrive at the number by reading the text on symbol hanging on the wall which functions as sort-of a riddle. A bunch of the numbers are clear, one or two annoy me but I see how it follows, and one I still don't understand but process of elimination required it. Here are the numbers and the symbols to which they correspond.

0 - (symbol on the second puzzle that doesn't appear anywhere else)
1 - I am the source and the universe, the undivided absolute. (hopefully this one is clear).
2 - I am the unity that reigns between life and death. (This one is annoying because usually unity means ONE, but in this case one is already taken so I guess life+death = 2).
3 - I am the planes of evil that give birth to demons, devils and daemons. (Another clear one. Abyss, Hell, Abaddon. That's 3)
4 - I am all sides and all directions on a sphere, the symbol of deceptive freedom. (A bit annoying but still makes sense. N, E, W, S the compass rose on a sphere/globe equals 4)
5 - I am the futile quest, the last in a line. (THIS IS THE ONE I DONT UNDERSTAND. Why? Who knows. But process of elimination meant 5 was all that's left, and it works so who knows.)
6 - I am the marilith that brings evil with every hand. (Again an easy one. Mariliths have 6 arms. boom.)
7 - I am the deadly sin that arose from a cardinal virtue. (Another clear one. Seven deadly sins, seven cardinal virtues.)

Those are the numbers. That's how many arrows have to be pointing to each of the symbols in the puzzles. Getting the arrows right wasn't bad it's figuring out the numbers that took four damn days. I can post the images of the arrows if anybody needs them, but they're already out there. It's the reasoning the solutions generally post that are garbage not the arrow solutions.

But yeah, this is the way. Super annoying and non-obvious. I still don't understand the number 5 symbol but if anybody has a clue about that let me know as its the only thing left I don't get.

Thanks, and this sucked.

[Foefaller]

Originally posted by Agent:

Day 4: I solved this piece of **** puzzle. I hate you, puzzle.

Ok, I'm going to post the solution (as in, how you are supposed to arrive at the solution since the arrow directions have been correctly posted to the internet before.) Hopefully we can put to bed the dumb idea about counting decorations.

The way to solve this is to assign numbers 0-7 to the symbols that appear on the two arrow puzzles. Each symbol corresponds to a different number. You arrive at the number by reading the text on symbol hanging on the wall which functions as sort-of a riddle. A bunch of the numbers are clear, one or two annoy me but I see how it follows, and one I still don't understand but process of elimination required it. Here are the numbers and the symbols to which they correspond.

0 - (symbol on the second puzzle that doesn't appear anywhere else)
1 - I am the source and the universe, the undivided absolute. (hopefully this one is clear).
2 - I am the unity that reigns between life and death. (This one is annoying because usually unity means ONE, but in this case one is already taken so I guess life+death = 2).
3 - I am the planes of evil that give birth to demons, devils and daemons. (Another clear one. Abyss, Hell, Abaddon. That's 3)
4 - I am all sides and all directions on a sphere, the symbol of deceptive freedom. (A bit annoying but still makes sense. N, E, W, S the compass rose on a sphere/globe equals 4)
5 - I am the futile quest, the last in a line. (THIS IS THE ONE I DONT UNDERSTAND. Why? Who knows. But process of elimination meant 5 was all that's left, and it works so who knows.)
6 - I am the marilith that brings evil with every hand. (Again an easy one. Mariliths have 6 arms. boom.)
7 - I am the deadly sin that arose from a cardinal virtue. (Another clear one. Seven deadly sins, seven cardinal virtues.)

Those are the numbers. That's how many arrows have to be pointing to each of the symbols in the puzzles. Getting the arrows right wasn't bad it's figuring out the numbers that took four damn days. I can post the images of the arrows if anybody needs them, but they're already out there. It's the reasoning the solutions generally post that are garbage not the arrow solutions.

But yeah, this is the way. Super annoying and non-obvious. I still don't understand the number 5 symbol but if anybody has a clue about that let me know as its the only thing left I don't get.

Thanks, and this sucked.

For #5: What Crusade are you fighting?

And the 0 symbol is the symbol of Areshkagal, who's all about nothing, at least in this dungeon.

[JustSmile]

That's simultaneously evil and clever. Congratulations, I did not have the patience to try and get through this on my own.

5... Maybe a bit meta? "Futile quest, last in line" - it's futile to try and figure out and it'll be the last one left and assigned a digit only by the process of elimination?

[Agent]

Ah, the 0 symbol being Areshkagal = Nothing is a good call. Definitely makes sense.

I don't know that I buy 5 = Fifth Crusade. Isn't the Enigma super old? So Areshkagal knew you'd show up in the future during what would be the fifth crusade when the puzzle was designed? I dunno man, that's pretty ugly.

[Agent]

Now I'm annoyed that the final puzzle doesn't rotate. It's clearly some sort of rotational puzzle and yet it doesn't actually rotate? Ugh, this one is going to piss me off as well isn't it.

[Conquista]

2: maybe pharasma and yog-sothoth are meant as unity? lorewise they created the current reality(life) after the last one got destroyed(death)

[Agent]

Yeah, I can get 2 to work thematically. I just don't like the use of the word unity in a riddle where the answer is 2. In mathematics, unity = 1. Maybe a translation issue? Or something.

[Hunny]

I salute you made men and women who do these puzzles without google the solution. o7