Benefits of keeping Lann a pure Zen Archer?

[Chester]

I'm thinking of reclassing Lann, I feel like I'm missing the point of keeping him a Zen Archer. His Ki Strike bonuses (Magic, Lawful, etc.) only work with unarmed strikes and not his bow, unless I'm mistaken. Almost all of his Ki Powers don't seem well suited to firing a bow (except True Strike). And his Zen Archery feat allowing him to use Wisdom instead of Dex is pointless since his Dex is so good. The only benefits seem to be Ki Arrows, which he gets pretty quick and a few nice bonus feats (and an extra attack from Flurry of Blows, which he'll keep after an immediate reclass anyway). Everything else seems to still be focused on getting him in the front lines as a tank/off tank fighting with his hands. I'm not looking for a min/max build but I'm not seeing the benefits of keeping him there long term.

(I think the build is trying to put him just behind the front lines and have him be a kind of turret with Snap Shot and Attacks of Opportunity. That seems like a lot of micromanaging though, since that maxes out at about 10 feet after 3 feats and he'll never get that close on his own)

(I'm thinking of letting him get True Strike and maybe Ki Arrows, then switching him over to either Mutation Warrior Fighter for Mutagen madness and tons of free feats or Demonslayer Ranger for some demon hatin' and a spell list so he can actually make use of his high Wisdom. Though that spell list is a little underwhelming too)

[Mork]

I like him very much as a Mutation Warrior with rapid shot and manyshot. He get very high attack bonus, good ac, saves and hit like a truck after level 6.

1 Zen Archer / 16 Mutation Warrior

[Quacksalber]

Cutlass Jack eredeti hozzászólása:

EH! eredeti hozzászólása:

So she was still level one? That's super strange.

She rejoins exactly at the level you left her at. Happened to me in act 3 when I got her back after fighting her.

Which was great, since it let me level her up to the current level and test out all sorts of builds with her. That's how I settled on her dual throwing axe Spawn Slayer build which made her awesome.

So it was a bit sad when I had no choice in killing her in act 4.

Well that's really odd, as when I got her in act 3 she was levelled as a hunter (coniving scoundrel or something).

[dwarfpcfan]

In my last playthrough before I restarted I gated him out of Zen archer at level 6 and made him a sanctified slayer.

Between sneak attacks, inquisitor bane weapon and some buffs to add to it. It was very effective, I'm sure there are much better builds but in turns of being to point in just shooting people with a pointy stick, I really couldn't complain

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Mork eredeti hozzászólása:

I like him very much as a Mutation Warrior with rapid shot and manyshot. He get very high attack bonus, good ac, saves and hit like a truck after level 6.

1 Zen Archer / 16 Mutation Warrior

I'd say 1ZA/12MW/4 booter/3 vivi might be better in the end, actually. 3d6 sneak with accomplished SA, greater mutagen and team buffs for a mere 1 BAB and sacrifice of grand mutagen (so that makes it 2AB). Mutation 19 gives feats, discoveries and bravery. You not going to get weapon mastery anyway, and archer isn't exactly a feat starved class. Mutagen has somewhat limited use for archers, and you are going for 4 discoveries, when you only need two of them. GWF is availible at 8 and GWS at 12, that's when mutation warrior stops being useful, imo.

[Adeptus Stark]

I am doing all Zen archer except 3 Rowdy Rogue. (He is also my Trickery guy)

He pops (explodes) a bad guy every round with his vital strike doing his weapon damage plus 6d6 Precision damage +3D6 Sneak attack.

Currently the party is level 8ish and he is a lot of fun.

I may give him another D6 sneak attack with his second Mythic rank which would give 8d6 Precision and 4d6 sneak attack added to each weapons damage (which will keep increasing with the larger Zen bow damage). Nastiness against a high HP enemy.

[jasta85]

I followed a guide which made him a cleric and don't really regret it as he still does pretty good ranged damage while also providing all the cleric support spells that you really need at higher levels. He also tends to die less than melee clerics, especially in turn based mode where it's easier to hold the attention of enemies.

[Chester]

I didn't even know Lann could get sneak dice as an archer. Is it because his attacks count as unarmed attacks that he's able to use them?

[Conquista]

any archer can get sneak attacks in this game

[Adeptus Stark]

chester.longdon eredeti hozzászólása:

I didn't even know Lann could get sneak dice as an archer. Is it because his attacks count as unarmed attacks that he's able to use them?

Yes sir, any archer I build pretty much takes 3 levels of Rowdy Rogue for huge damage. Doing a run on Core difficulty right now and it's definitely needed lol.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Tom eredeti hozzászólása:

I am doing all Zen archer except 3 Rowdy Rogue.

Botched build.

[Adeptus Stark]

Alm eredeti hozzászólása:

Tom eredeti hozzászólása:

I am doing all Zen archer except 3 Rowdy Rogue.

Botched build.

Again I am still early in the build. I see the last 3 levels of Zen Archer don't add much, but the extra damage from Rowdy has been working great. To each his own.

[Trolleur_Durden]

Vital strike is all about a single very powerful attack, which is not very optimal with a Zen archer's kit revolving around flurry of blows. Also, an archer often doesn't need to move a lot in combat, so he can do much more often a full-attack round with a 5 feet free move compared to a melee character that sometimes has to spend his move action reaching his target, making Vital strike a bit less efficient with them. I don't doubt it still works considering how powerful sneak attack is in this game, but it's still sub-optimal for Lann IMO.

[Denomar]

making a 20th level zen archer be extra big leads to some very satisfying arrows.

[Conquista]

tbf not everything is about minmaxing, so just drop the bow and fight like a real half man half lizard goat

[Adeptus Stark]

Trolleur_Durden eredeti hozzászólása:

Vital strike is all about a single very powerful attack, which is not very optimal with a Zen archer's kit revolving around flurry of blows. Also, an archer often doesn't need to move a lot in combat, so he can do much more often a full-attack round with a 5 feet free move compared to a melee character that sometimes has to spend his move action reaching his target, making Vital strike a bit less efficient with them. I don't doubt it still works considering how powerful sneak attack is in this game, but it's still sub-optimal for Lann IMO.

True, there's times many smaller attacks work well compared to one powerful attack. Whether it's a high AC enemy or numerous weak enemies, but he can still do just that with this build and the attacks have the added benefit of 3d6 damage.

I have found his one big instakill attack is often better than 2 or 3 splash attacks the majority of the time. But alas, I am still early in the game.

I don't play on Unfair though and havn't found the need to Munchkin with dipping 4 classes like some people are suggesting...