Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Advice on Specific Build Idea
So when it comes to RPGs, I usually just choose classes that seem the most fun to me. However, when I begin branching out from my norm and start struggling with classes I really want to get into, I'll occasionally take inspiration from other characters to help get through rough patches of a build.

Right now, I'm trying to design a Medivh-inspired spellcaster, primarily due to the fact he was pretty much a skill monkey and I always liked him as a character. However, I'm torn on how to build such a class. Being relatively new to the Pathfinder system doesn't help either.

He dipped into a lot of different schools (necromancy, transmutation, evocation, etc.) so getting a perfect 1/1 is pretty difficult, but I'm more interested in getting close to a good. viable representation rather than a perfect carbon copy.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Edit: My initial thoughts were using sorcerer/arcanist/wizard as the core focus and then possibly multiclassing into witch/oracle for RP flavor and certain abilities. Though I'm unsure if that's even viable. No idea in terms of subclass.
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Conquista Oct 6, 2021 @ 2:37pm 
are we talking world of warcraft medivh?
just go possessed oracle
you can pick spells how you want
and you can get spells from different schools through gear
Last edited by Conquista; Oct 6, 2021 @ 2:37pm
Siegdarth Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:26pm 
I think you should go Mystic Theurge Prestige class. Arcanist (Elderich Font ) + Oracle (possessed oracle).
Because you will be able to progress in both Arcane and Divine Spells.
Last edited by Siegdarth; Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:28pm
Frostfeather (Banned) Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:33pm 
I think Loremaster would be a great fit both mechanically and thematically, but... spell Secrets are still not implemented for the class (you can't currently take levels in Loremaster to gain access to spells your base caster class wouldn't normally have access to).

That said, I think it could still work well. The other secrets are implemented and between those and what your base class would give you, I think you could still create a good character starting with Wizard, Sorcerer, or Arcanist. I'm thinking Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer in particular, looking at Medivh's abilities in HotS.

I wouldn't go Mystic Theurge as making MT work well would take a bit more Pathfinder experience, not to mention probably merging Angel or Lich spellbooks (which might not appeal to your character idea) plus a respec (which could possibly ruin your game atm).
Last edited by Frostfeather; Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:46pm
Runic Tunic Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:34pm 
Originally posted by Conquista:
are we talking world of warcraft medivh?
just go possessed oracle
you can pick spells how you want
and you can get spells from different schools through gear
Yup. Warcraft Medivh. And I considered it. Aren't you still limited in the types of schools you can dip into since you can only pick one Mystery? That's why I considered a multiclass route
Last edited by Runic Tunic; Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:34pm
Conquista Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:37pm 
you can get some necromany, fire, ice, poison spells through rings you find ingame, from which you can wear two at the same time
and you can get electricity spells from a bracelet
but you should chose to specialize into one element anyway because of game mechanics
with mythic feat you can get a second mystery

also mulitclassing a caster is in most cases bad, your spell progression will be slowed down which will weaken you alot
Last edited by Conquista; Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:40pm
Runic Tunic Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:41pm 
Originally posted by Conquista:
you can get some necromany, fire, ice, poison spells through rings you find ingame, from which you can wear two at the same time
and you can get electricity spells from a bracelet
but you should chose to specialize into one element anyway because of game mechanics
with mythic feat you can get a second mystery
True, I forgot about the Mythic feat. My only concern for the gear focus is it's viability throughout the game. Needing to swap out gear and losing helpful skills while waiting for a specific item or upgrade can be rough. I'll do some additional research into it though. Thank you for the suggestion
Runic Tunic Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:48pm 
Originally posted by night4:
I think Loremaster would be a great fit both mechanically and thematically, but... spell Secrets are still not implemented for the class (you can't currently take levels in Loremaster to gain access to spells your base caster class wouldn't normally have access to).

That said, I think it could still work well. The other secrets are implemented and between those and what your base class would give you, I think you could still create a good character starting with Wizard, Sorcerer, or Arcanist.

I wouldn't go Mystic Theurge as making MT work well would take a bit more Pathfinder experience, not to mention probably merging Angel or Lich spellbooks (which might not appeal to your character idea) plus a respec (which could possibly ruin your game atm).
I hadn't considered Mystic Theurge before and it definitely fits thematically. The respec might be a problem though.... Lore Master is also a great suggestion. The not having the spell secrets implemented is a big bummer. Wonder if there's a mod out there....

Would you go pure Bloodline Sorcerer into Loremaster or would doing a hybrid with another class do you think? I know dipping too much can ruin a build so I'm just curious. Also would Eldritch Font + Posessed Oracle still be viable for a Loremaster in your eyes?

As for path...honestly hadn't considered it yet lol Anything works I suppose. Like I said I'm more interested in getting a core build set up first and foremost. Then fine tune later.
Last edited by Runic Tunic; Oct 6, 2021 @ 4:10pm
Frostfeather (Banned) Oct 6, 2021 @ 5:14pm 
Originally posted by Runic Tunic:
I hadn't considered Mystic Theurge before and it definitely fits thematically. The respec might be a problem though.... Lore Master is also a great suggestion. The not having the spell secrets implemented is a big bummer. Wonder if there's a mod out there....

Would you go pure Bloodline Sorcerer into Loremaster or would doing a hybrid with another class do you think? I know dipping too much can ruin a build so I'm just curious. Also would Eldritch Font + Posessed Oracle still be viable for a Loremaster in your eyes?

As for path...honestly hadn't considered it yet lol Anything works I suppose. Like I said I'm more interested in getting a core build set up first and foremost. Then fine tune later.

Well you don't absolutely have to respec to do MT, it's just a more ideal way to unlock it asap in your character's progression (you'd respec when you can merge spellbooks, to qualify for MT earlier. Like Angel 3+Oracle 1 and 4 Sorcerer would qualify you, for example.) If you really like the idea of a Mystic Theurge, you could do it. It's got some drawbacks like slower access to higher level spells and a larger, possibly overwhelming number of spells. I can post a little more about my experiences with Mystic Theurge in a little bit here if you want, I'm on mobile atm.

For Loremaster spell Secrets, you might be able to add the spells to your list using Toy Box, but I haven't tried that yet.

I'd probably go Sorcerer or some kind of Oracle into Loremaster without trying to mix them, personally. Then merge either Lich with Sorcerer or Angel with Oracle depending on which one.
Runic Tunic Oct 6, 2021 @ 6:45pm 
Originally posted by night4:
Originally posted by Runic Tunic:
I hadn't considered Mystic Theurge before and it definitely fits thematically. The respec might be a problem though.... Lore Master is also a great suggestion. The not having the spell secrets implemented is a big bummer. Wonder if there's a mod out there....

Would you go pure Bloodline Sorcerer into Loremaster or would doing a hybrid with another class do you think? I know dipping too much can ruin a build so I'm just curious. Also would Eldritch Font + Posessed Oracle still be viable for a Loremaster in your eyes?

As for path...honestly hadn't considered it yet lol Anything works I suppose. Like I said I'm more interested in getting a core build set up first and foremost. Then fine tune later.

Well you don't absolutely have to respec to do MT, it's just a more ideal way to unlock it asap in your character's progression (you'd respec when you can merge spellbooks, to qualify for MT earlier. Like Angel 3+Oracle 1 and 4 Sorcerer would qualify you, for example.) If you really like the idea of a Mystic Theurge, you could do it. It's got some drawbacks like slower access to higher level spells and a larger, possibly overwhelming number of spells. I can post a little more about my experiences with Mystic Theurge in a little bit here if you want, I'm on mobile atm.

For Loremaster spell Secrets, you might be able to add the spells to your list using Toy Box, but I haven't tried that yet.

I'd probably go Sorcerer or some kind of Oracle into Loremaster without trying to mix them, personally. Then merge either Lich with Sorcerer or Angel with Oracle depending on which one.
Thanks for the help! And if you're willing to take the time I'd be up for hearing more from your experiences. I've spent a lot of time reading about builds and class guides and I still feel like I know absolutely nothing so any info anyone can give me is welcomed!
Frostfeather (Banned) Oct 6, 2021 @ 9:54pm 
Originally posted by Runic Tunic:
Thanks for the help! And if you're willing to take the time I'd be up for hearing more from your experiences. I've spent a lot of time reading about builds and class guides and I still feel like I know absolutely nothing so any info anyone can give me is welcomed!

For Mystic Theurge: I'm going to explain some things you might already know, just for the sake of preventing confusion and for the sake of someone else reading who might not know. So first, some caster classes cast spells spontaneously (Sorcerer/Oracle/some Druids and Witches) and some prepare spells ahead of time (Cleric/Shaman/Wizard/most Druids/most Witches). Arcanist is kind of a hybrid. We can get into the differences a bit more, but the thing relevant to MT here is that prepared casters get new spells at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, etc and spontaneous casters 1, 4, 6, 8, etc.

You need some levels in an arcane casting class (usually Wizard/Sorcerer/Arcanist/Witch) and some levels in a divine casting class (usually Cleric/Druid/Oracle/Shaman) to unlock Mystic Theurge. Specifically 2nd level casting in both arcane and divine spells, so that means something like Wizard 3/Cleric 3 or Druid 3/Sorcerer 4 or whatever. Needing 3 vs 4 levels for prepared vs spontaneous is a tradeoff, and makes the difference between taking your first MT level at character level 7 - 9. Usually people want to start MT as soon as possible.

But in Wrath, you can combine your Cleric or Oracle levels with your Angel mythic ranks (mythic ranks being basically separate levels you get in whatever mythic path you choose) or Wizard/Sorcerer levels with your Lich mythic ranks. That means you can qualify for MT when you reach mythic rank 3 in Angel (3 is the minimum for Angel), for example, with Wizard 3/merged Cleric 1+Angel 3 or in my case: Sorcerer 4/merged Oracle 1+Angel 3. You'll be around character level 8-10 when you unlock Angel, but can just respec like I was talking about before. You certainly don't have to respec, but it does let you get your MT levels in earlier, which is an advantage.

And typically, when people talk about MT, they tend to recommend 2 classes that use the same ability score for casting (Intelligence for Wizards/most Witches, Wisdom for Clerics/Druids/Shaman, or Charisma for Oracle/most Sorcerers) so you're not trying to spread your ability scores too much. Often that means Cleric and Empyreal Sorcerer because they both use Wisdom (some Sorcerer archetypes use Int or Wis and Empyreal uses Wis). My MT uses Charisma for both Sorcerer and Oracle.

With all that out of the way, I started the game as a Sorcerer. When I unlocked Angel, I was character level 10 and respecced from Sorcerer 10 to Sorcerer 4/Oracle 1/Mystic Theurge 5. I ran into a bug you might have to deal with if you do go MT: my divine caster level didn't increase the first 3-4 levels of MT. It's an easy fix with the Toy Box mod as there's a button that increases your caster level for each spellbook you have. Then if you're an Oracle, you'll also be missing a few divine spells you can easily give yourself with Toy Box.

I went Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer partly for the Hare Familiar that increases Initiative, and the Oracle Mystery was Battle for the Revelation that rerolls Initiative. Then took Sorcerous Reflex, a mythic ability which lets you cast a spell immediately when combat begins. So my strategy was to go as early as possible in every fight and throw out 2 spells in the first round in almost every fight. Also, you get an Angel ability that adds damage to all your spells and attacks and I'd use that on damaging spells from both arcane and divine books. There were a number of other synergies too.

It worked very well for me overall, but as a tradeoff I did get new spells a little more slowly than a pure arcane or divine caster would have. And I had a *lot* of spells before long, which could become overwhelming depending on your taste for that kind of thing.

So you can maybe see why I wouldn't normally recommend MT to someone new to the game - it can get a little complicated. If you are willing to get into the details and maybe fix a bug with Toy Box, you could totally do it. Or you can try to keep things easier by not merging spellbooks and/or not respeccing. Eldritch Font + Possessed Oracle into MT could work, you'd just want high Int and Charisma both. I still think some caster class into Loremaster could work well too, and that would certainly be more straightforward.

This kind of got longer than I expected. Feel free to keep replying if you have questions or if you decide on a direction to go in. we can help give you some ideas.
Last edited by Frostfeather; Oct 6, 2021 @ 9:58pm
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Date Posted: Oct 6, 2021 @ 2:21pm
Posts: 10