Sword Saint question

[Agent]

I started with a sword saint while I was learning the ropes in WoTR and then switched to a two-handed paladin type for my real first run, and having combined the experiences I wonder if my thought is correct: Traditionally sword saint keeps a hand free to cast touch attacks with melee strikes but am I wrong that in WotR this is kind of a noob trap? I mean maybe you want to do aldori or something, but specifically for the casting. Because almost everything important you fight has such high spell resistance and elemental immunities and a sword saint should be taking tons of combat feats rather than stacking spell penetration stuff like a caster? Your maximized shocking grasp melee strike probably won't penetrate SR as a sword saint, and even if it did tons of stuff is immune anyway.

So it seems to me you're better off going two-handed for straight HULK SMASH damage, combined with the arcane pool sword saint buffs letting you add weapon properties and do touch attacks with your weapon, and using your spell slots for self-buffs? It's a shame to lose the unique sword saint cast-spells-by-hitting-with-sword flavor but it just doesn't seem like it's worth it to me?

A self-buffing true-striking melee-touch attack brilliant-energy hitting saint with a greataxe on the other hand seems a-ok.

[CHAO$$$]

sword saint doesnt really care about spell combat, you can get an additional attack as a tradeoff for -X on rolls in the early game (if you can actually make the concentration check) but thats it

The features you care for are the sword saint abilities that let you target touch / ignore dex stuff like that as a swift action for 1 round.

Mirror image, Shield, blink spells early on.

Transformation at level 16.

All the obvious class features like int bonuses and axiomatic/holy weapon enchants with alignment.

There are some moments touch spells could be useful but considering how feat intensive spell casting is in this game its probably not worth it.

[Agent]

Yeah that was what I was thinking after my aborted playthrough with sword saint; dump shocking hands and that crap and buff myself to high heaven while using the arcane pool to buff the weapon.

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

sword saint doesnt really care about spell combat, you can get an additional attack as a tradeoff for -X on rolls in the early game (if you can actually make the concentration check) but thats it

I'd say SwordSaint generally cares, but not in this game. When you crit with Vampiric Touch for 300+ damage with spell combat and get 300 health back from it, it's really nice. But not in this game where everything has 35+ spell resistance and you need a dozen of feats boosting your will save.

Originally posted by Agent:

Yeah that was what I was thinking after my aborted playthrough with sword saint; dump shocking hands and that crap and buff myself to high heaven while using the arcane pool to buff the weapon.

There's a relic Bardiche which uses Int for attack rolls and damage if you wanna go full meme btw.

[jsaving]

Originally posted by Agent:

Traditionally sword saint keeps a hand free to cast touch attacks with melee strikes but am I wrong that in WotR this is kind of a noob trap?

Yes, you are completely correct about that (and it was also true in Kingmaker). It's probably even more of a noob trap than going DEX-based, actually.

[Garessta]

Damn, now I have to rethink my entire SS build.
And there I was thinking I was doing really nice with it.
And it was DEX-based, too... Damn. Now I will have to rethink my stats as well. And it's a pain because I have my skills to think about!
Question - if you go STR-based, where do you take AC from, considering SS doesnt get armour and doesn't have mage armour in his spell list for archmage armour?

[Conquista]

you get ac from int and cha if you monk dip and selfbuffs like archmage armour that you can trigger with a potion

[Agent]

Archmage Armor potions? Hah. Clever if cheesy.

[jsaving]

Yeah, it makes no sense that archmage armor would apply to potions/scrolls but it does, at least for now. If that ever changes then you could consider a 1-level dip into eldritch scoundrel, which you could do alongside scaled fist without jeopardizing your ability to reach 18th level as a saint.

Regarding survivability, it's true that your AC is slightly higher if you go DEX-based, but the ability to apply three separate stats to AC (INT/CHA/DEX) means even a STR-based saint is going to be very competitive AC-wise, especially if you are using archmage armor when needed.

[Garessta]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Yeah, it makes no sense that archmage armor would apply to potions/scrolls but it does, at least for now. If that ever changes then you could consider a 1-level dip into eldritch scoundrel, which you could do alongside scaled fist without jeopardizing your ability to reach 18th level as a saint.

Regarding survivability, it's true that your AC is slightly higher if you go DEX-based, but the ability to apply three separate stats to AC (INT/CHA/DEX) means even a STR-based saint is going to be very competitive AC-wise, especially if you are using archmage armor when needed.

But if I do with int/cha/dex for AC, i'd need them high, and that's the thing--how I'm supposed to minmax three stats?
Cudos for archamge armor tip tho. Does trickster's sneak attack add to the rogue's?

[Agent]

AFAIK all sneak attack damage die are cumulative between any number of classes.

[Faray]

I mean if you were going to ignore spell combat aren't there 2 handed classes that are a better pick anyway? Spell resistance isn't even that big of a deal imo, it's the saving throws that really hurt casters, and touch spells don't target those, they target touch AC which is the easiest thing to hit usually.

That being said spell combat is hurt right now since touch spells and metamagic doesn't work

[Siegdarth]

Even if you don't go dex (+0 dex) you can focus on self buffs only. Shield, Cat's, Blur, Bear Displacement , Magical Weapon and vestments.
Most Gear will only go for +4/5 Dex

I often go for ->>>>>> - with buffs
18 Str +4 ->>>>>> 22 + 6
14 cons +2 ->>>>>> 18 +4
16 Int +3 ->>>>>> 20 + 5
12 dex + 1 ->>>>>> 16 + 4
10 wis
8 cha

Last Stand - Elemental Barrage (Each 1d6 from enchantments will trigger the Divine dmg effect, so if you put acid sword +,frost + fire + electric it will trigger 3 times. At later levels I was hitting about 150 - 200 from a single non crit hit )

Weapon Enchantment counts as Spell.

For rings -> Ring of pyromania + 1d6 + 5 if fire. Don't know if 2 of those stacks.

For weapon -> Blood Boiler longsword or Black Dragon's Fang or any other Elemental weapon.

[jasta85]

As far as Sword Saint, going pure sword saint with no cross-class dipping is actually pretty viable in this game. You can hit level 20 quite a bit before end game, and having auto confirmed criticals (especially with how high enemy AC is) and the extra crit damage can be super powerful on a level 20 sword saint. I intend to use one on my next play through when going for the difficulty locked achievements.

[Agent]

While I agree, since soooo many of the bosses are demons and the like, crusader's edge gets you a lot of the way there on auto-confirming critical hits if you don't go all the way to 20.

[El_Bastardo]

Some people might even take some odd 2h reach weapon that happens to have a 18-20/2x multiplier, get it to 15-20x5, go full vital strike and 1shot everything on a crit (~2000) and also everything you hit with impr. cleaving finish, while safely keeping your 60-80 AC and +20 AB/attack on touch AC up every round.

but then again, it's only fun when you do it the very first time ;)