Full list of other PF Adventure Paths (and possible campaign mechanics)

[Procrastinating Gamer]

I got bored recently and started thinking about what other Adventure Paths Owlcat could adapt. I originally started thinking about it when people were talking about what campaign-scale mechanics would be in Owlcat's next game (like how Kingmaker had kingdom building and WotR has crusade management) and realised... mechanics like that are actually in the minority for the Adventure Path line, Kingmaker and WotR was as large-scale as they got.

Now I've heard someone say that Owlcat isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition (which is disappointing to me if its true because I vastly prefer 2e's mechanics and it's a much easier-to-balance system so we wouldn't get all the complaints about bloated enemy stats we've gotten in this game and its predecessor) but I included the released and announced 2e APs just for a complete list.

And if nothing else, some people here might find it an interesting read just to see what other options Owlcat had for what to adapt into a video game or just see how long the Adventure Path line has been around. Enjoy the read.[docs.google.com]

[アンジェル]

Thank you! That was interesting!

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

I would assume the newer ruleset would be better, putting D&D 4th aside.

In addition to that, I do believe it will be hard for Owlcat's next game. Making something non-mythic equally interesting... And I would think they put the kingdom management part aside after receiving harsh critique on Kingmaker and even harsher on WotR. I might be mistaken though, and maybe I am the only one who did not enjoy the crusade gameplay mechanics or the kingdom management.

I would love to see a more open approach with the game aka Legends of the Swordcoast like where we get a campaign editor with encounter builder and whatsonot. But I am also worried it might just end like Legends of the Swordcoast...

Storywise I love what they did with WotR. Kingmaker was great too (I just did not like all the Fey part), until it got overshadowed by gameplay stuff - in my personal opinion.

I am looking forward for the next game of Owlcat. Not from a point of view as a fan, more objectively, considering how much the game design of theirs improved since Kingmaker. It makes it even more saddening that I feel they got their priorities wrong - looking back at the kickstarter goals. After having played the game and considering all the many details I am convinced there would have been ways to use the money instead of making some additions for the looks, less for the quality of the game. (e.g. extra mythics coming so late feels too much like "got baited by gold dragon, instead I got angel with gold dragon ending")

Who knows what the future will bring us. In the meanwhile it is definitely as interesting as this to look closer how Baldur's Gate III will present us with a D&D licensed game, which is not Dark Alliance... or Legends of the Swordcoast...

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

I would assume the newer ruleset would be better, putting D&D 4th aside.

I don't know where I read that - it was an off-hand comment in a thread here a couple weeks or so back and the conversation had moved past it so quickly I didn't think to ask.

Pathfinder 2e is a much better ruleset in my opinion - they kind of took the best bits of PF1e, DnD 5e, even DnD 4e (which did actually have some good ideas), and a few of their own ideas. Balancing encounters is easily done and reliable (as opposed to Challenge Rating which has always been an educated guess at best), no lack of choice when building characters, no trap options either so you still get a functional character even if you just pick feats for flavour and narrative, etc.

But a lot of people have found aspects of it annoying - like having to spend one of your three action points a round to raise your shield or it gives no AC bonus, a lot of people finding the bonuses not feeling impactful (the math's finely-tuned so that even a +1 is meaningful at every level of play, but it's easy not to feel it if you're not paying attention to what you're actually rolling), spellcasters feeling weaker even though they're balanced with martials for what's probably the first time in the d20 ruleset's lineage. Suffice to say that opinion is divided on the subject.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Procrastinating Gamer:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

I would assume the newer ruleset would be better, putting D&D 4th aside.

I don't know where I read that - it was an off-hand comment in a thread here a couple weeks or so back and the conversation had moved past it so quickly I didn't think to ask.

Pathfinder 2e is a much better ruleset in my opinion - they kind of took the best bits of PF1e, DnD 5e, even DnD 4e (which did actually have some good ideas), and a few of their own ideas. Balancing encounters is easily done and reliable (as opposed to Challenge Rating which has always been an educated guess at best), no lack of choice when building characters, no trap options either so you still get a functional character even if you just pick feats for flavour and narrative, etc.

But a lot of people have found aspects of it annoying - like having to spend one of your three action points a round to raise your shield or it gives no AC bonus, a lot of people finding the bonuses not feeling impactful (the math's finely-tuned so that even a +1 is meaningful at every level of play, but it's easy not to feel it if you're not paying attention to what you're actually rolling), spellcasters feeling weaker even though they're balanced with martials for what's probably the first time in the d20 ruleset's lineage. Suffice to say that opinion is divided on the subject.

I know that the digital adaption is not perfect either, and Owlcat Games has streamlined a lot, not to mention skipped from having it ingame (thinking of all possible skills e.g.).

Kinda sad considering the way you describe what differs with 2e sounds so much better for a digital adaption, if it is not that good for the board game due the fine tuned math. I personally like it fine tuned since I do not pay attention to it and rejoice every time I realise a skill or ability others considered bad on paper turns out to be invaluable later on.

D&D 4th definitely had good ideas. I just felt it was... what is the word? overblown? blown up? It was not the kind of D&D I prefer, where I focus more on role play and story teller freedom. I think Rick from Rick&Morty got it pretty much on point in regards of rules and such with D&D. Something along the line "made them roll a check for them to eat (DEX), to sleep (WIS), for everything to punish them!!!"

I can understand why it is hard to embrace the new stuff when you are gotten so used to the old one. And from my personal point of view it is less the new stuff per se, but people not wanting their homebrew rules to be overthrown like that after they made intelligent adjustments. Speaking here about D&D 4th as well as about PF 2nd.

It is good to see the new versions make stuff leaner where it matters, while making meaningful improvements on exploits or broken mechanics. Though, compared to the state I remember round about 30-35 years ago, I am missing lore. At least that is my personal impression there had been many more lore books back then... Like a book only about elves, or something like Land of Fallen Stars. It just feels better to me when a world you play in feels more ... solid. That is why I love the details in WotR. Camellia feeding on Aravashnial? hilarious! Now I wonder what he tasted like...

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Thank you! That was interesting!

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

I think its because Kingmaker is filling a Niche no one else is filling right now, as many companies have moved to 5e. 2e Also is fairly new and isn't as much content but also i don't think it was as well received as they had hoped. PF 2e is very much trying to be 5e in many respects and alot of older players still just play 1e or would rather play 5e instead of 2e, though i'm making some biased assumptions.

Despite what people think, there is still a LARGE fan base for the older system of 3.5 a fan base that is super faithful and enjoys a more complex system. We already have BG3 and Solasta, i doubt Owlcat wants to compete with those companies in a more direct way--- so if you want my opinion it's just a business decision.

That said, there is a TON of content for Pathfinder, lots of adventure paths to go through and content to go over. Kingmaker and Wrath were 2 of the most popular adventure paths and considered by many to be some of the BEST adventures ever done for DnD period.

But if rumors hold true, the next game is likely Starfinder, as if i remember correctly Owlcat was hiring staff for a Sci-fi game, but that is of course just rumor.

Edit
Also! just some random personal thoughts, Owlcats first game was kingmaker if i am not mistaken. It maybe very likely that they have some kind of contract with Paizo which is why they are sticking to Paizo products. This was very much what happened to Bioware back in the day as well.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

But if rumors hold true, the next game is likely Starfinder, as if i remember correctly Owlcat was hiring staff for a Sci-fi game, but that is of course just rumor.

Edit
Also! just some random personal thoughts, Owlcats first game was kingmaker if i am not mistaken. It maybe very likely that they have some kind of contract with Paizo which is why they are sticking to Paizo products. This was very much what happened to Bioware back in the day as well.

That information is interesting too! I was surprised when I read about the rumors so early after launch of WotR. From a laywise perspective I would have thought they work on the console and enhanced edition before starting on an entirely new game already. But that too might be a business decision. My first thought was Starfinder too. But I would not be sad if it turns out to be the Iron Gods path, which feels semi sci-fi. Though probably Starfinder. It would make so much more sense with the engine to explore where no one was before - more or less.

I did not know Bioware had a special contract with Wizards. It did them good back then, before Dragon Age 2 - in my personal opinion. Maybe the next Owlcat game being KotOR-like? I would be interested.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Thank you! That was interesting!

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

But if rumors hold true, the next game is likely Starfinder, as if i remember correctly Owlcat was hiring staff for a Sci-fi game, but that is of course just rumor.

I hope you are right!! Tbh I am much into Spelljammer and want that, but Starfinder is alright! I want that so bad.. It is not like they don´t know how to either !! I mean
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2616682729

So please please.. let that be truth..

[kiloromeo]

OwlCat does not give a ❤❤❤❤ about CR-system ....

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Thank you! That was interesting!

Do you have any more additional "background information" to share? Like why Owlcat "isn't a fan of Pathfinder 2nd Edition" ?

I think its because Kingmaker is filling a Niche no one else is filling right now, as many companies have moved to 5e. 2e Also is fairly new and isn't as much content but also i don't think it was as well received as they had hoped. PF 2e is very much trying to be 5e in many respects and alot of older players still just play 1e or would rather play 5e instead of 2e, though i'm making some biased assumptions.

I think a lot of that's also people waiting for 2e to get more content (which it's got a fair amount of now - between how archetypes work and what classes we have already you can pretty well bodge together a lot of 1e classes) or making assumptions about the finished product based on the playtest (which was an actual playtest so a fair bit changed between that and final release) or from second-hand information they've heard.

That Age of Ashes and the first standalone adventure for 2e, Fall of Plaguestone, were notorious meat-grinders (Paizo were still developing and balancing the system when those adventures were written) probably didn't help matters.

A few people coming over from 5e have actually found 2e easier to run once they got used to having more mechanics actually codified. That so many of them worked along the same lines certainly helps. It's streamlined without going to the extreme that 5e did.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Darkie:

I hope you are right!! Tbh I am much into Spelljammer and want that, but Starfinder is alright! I want that so bad.. It is not like they don´t know how to either !! I mean
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2616682729

So please please.. let that be truth..

That guy was so close to make a joke about navigating through the Abyss in under twelve parsecs...

[Fluff]

Oh that's a nice thing to read and think about. Before even started to read though have a question and sorry if there are some answers above already - typing on fly because am interested to read after getting home:

1. Are there any campaigns that can feel as 'unique' as this one? In terms of Mythic Feats and Abilities adding a completely new taste to the basic 20 lvl progression/character building?

Like mythic paths here or shouts in tes5 and so on (wanted to give more examples but couldn't rly remember on fly

2. And which campaign would be your favorite to make next?

[solthusx]

I'm pretty sure WOTR is the only AP based around the PCs gaining Mythic Power. Other APs do feature Mythic enemies but not so numerous that the players would need mythic powers to have a chance.

Personally, I'd like to see Jade Reagent or Iron Gods made into a game, but Reign of Winter would be cool as well (pun intended). If only because I'll get to see the inevitable complaints about Baba Yaga being 'unfair' when they predictably try to attack, or player reaction to the entierty of part 5 of that AP and how you need to kill Rasputin (yes, THAT Rasputin)three times in a row to defeat him permanently.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Darkie:

I hope you are right!! Tbh I am much into Spelljammer and want that, but Starfinder is alright! I want that so bad.. It is not like they don´t know how to either !! I mean
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2616682729

So please please.. let that be truth..

That guy was so close to make a joke about navigating through the Abyss in under twelve parsecs...

We all need abit of fun, don´t we.
Anyway. I really do think that it would be a nice setting thb.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by Tusk_Luv:

Oh that's a nice thing to read and think about. Before even started to read though have a question and sorry if there are some answers above already - typing on fly because am interested to read after getting home:

1. Are there any campaigns that can feel as 'unique' as this one? In terms of Mythic Feats and Abilities adding a completely new taste to the basic 20 lvl progression/character building?

Like mythic paths here or shouts in tes5 and so on (wanted to give more examples but couldn't rly remember on fly

2. And which campaign would be your favorite to make next?

solthusx answered part 1 - Pathfinder 1e only had Mythic Rules for the sort of thing you're asking about and WotR was the only AP to use it. The current 2e Adventure Path, Strength of Thousands, apparently has something similar but I'm not sure if it's bonus feats related to the plot or if you still need to spend your normal feat choices (either the main line or the extra class feats from it using the Free Archetype rule) on them.

My personal favourite would be Iron Gods. That or going back to the beginning and adapting Rise of the Runelords.

[Sashenka]

The sci-fi stuff might also be for Iron Gods. I would really like a videogame adaptation of Curse of the Crimson Throne but it is more of a RP and social AP. Might be hard to make into a videogame.

[TofuFox]

I dunno if they dislike 2E so much as have spent several years developing a 1E engine that they'd have to rewrite; still, haven't seen any direct comments on the matter. Beyond that, the only AP they've said they aren't doing is Reign of Winter, because of its tone and handling of Russian history.