still cheating?

[jaden_frost]

the original game cheat MASSIVELY and CONTINUALLY. Is this one the same?

[McBeardly]

This isn't cheating my dude. It's literally a section of the core book and srd for changing monster stats to accommodate higher level or higher skill players.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-advancement/

The only thing that can really be said to be a cheat is the lower than normal xp values, which is obviously just done for pacing reasons functionally putting players on an extra slow xp track.

[jaden_frost]

Publicado originalmente por McBeardly:

This isn't cheating my dude. It's literally a section of the core book and srd for changing monster stats to accommodate higher level or higher skill players.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-advancement/

The only thing that can really be said to be a cheat is the lower than normal xp values, which is obviously just done for pacing reasons functionally putting players on an extra slow xp track.

Yes, it is still cheating. This should never have been added and wasn't in 3.5.

A kobald is a kobald. Agian like i said above some people just dont get it.

By your logic, i should indeed be able to start with god stats. Fine i want 50's in all my stats. Can i? No? Then the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheating.

[JonWoo]

Publicado originalmente por jaden_frost:

Publicado originalmente por McBeardly:

This isn't cheating my dude. It's literally a section of the core book and srd for changing monster stats to accommodate higher level or higher skill players.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-advancement/

The only thing that can really be said to be a cheat is the lower than normal xp values, which is obviously just done for pacing reasons functionally putting players on an extra slow xp track.

Yes, it is still cheating. This should never have been added and wasn't in 3.5.

A kobald is a kobald. Agian like i said above some people just dont get it.

By your logic, i should indeed be able to start with god stats. Fine i want 50's in all my stats. Can i? No? Then the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheating.

No, it's not. That's not up to you and this isn't D&D or 3.5 and it's not even table top Pathfinder it's just based off of it so not everything is followed precisely.

Rules are rules and they're followed so by the very definition, it's not cheating. Certain people just don't get that.

By your logic you're cheating because anything you want to say is cheating is cheating even when it makes no logical sense in any way.

Hell, we can keep it in the game terms if you want. 6 characters instead of 4? Cheater! 20+(and even higher for some pregens) point buys? Cheater! Copious amounts of magical items along with some that don't actually exist thrown at you left and right? Cheater! Death's Door instead of dying? Cheater! And there's plenty more.

You want to say it differs from the established lore and continuity you were expecting that's fine but it's a completely different issue.

[Solomon Kane]

Cheating AI or not, this is a signle player game, if a cheating AI bothers you that much, hell, cheat yourself, and all is good. Game is hard? Well, ever heard of Darkest dungeon or dark souls? Either learn and get better, or cheat yourself, you do not hurt anyone by cheating, since it is a single player game. Just complaining leads to no solution, and is called whinning.

[Marcos_DS]

Publicado originalmente por jaden_frost:

Publicado originalmente por Marcos_DS:

If you mean its not using P&P base beastiary stats: Thats not cheating. The DM is supposed to change and modify the game to challenge the players. Rule 0 and all that jazz.

Playing the tabletop game don't have savegames or retries, so the difficulty has to be easy enough that total party kills don't happen (unless the players act extremely stupid). In computer games, such easy difficulty wouldn't be interesting for many players. Reloading a hard fight is expected, reloading all the time means you should lower difficulty...

yes, it is cheating. unless i can start with god level stats neither can the nps. Period. unless of course it is a god. I asked a simple question and got a simple answer, yes, the game still cheats. Im not interested in playing a game that will cheat you, so i wont be going back to this one or the next.

Unless the DM is hiding the changes or (maybe) changes things like stat blocks "on the fly" all the time, no. Since the game tells you the exact stat blocks, its not hidden or changed at-will. In P&P, the DM doesn't have to use the default stat blocks of the monster manual, and there are countless examples in adventure paths where stat blocks are different from default. Default stat blocks are just often used cause its convenient, not because you HAVE to use them.

Some groups may want to only play with the basic rules, without any changes or houserules. But not doing so isn't cheating, its in fact explicitly encouraged in the game rules.

[Stink Bug]

I kinda get where the OP is coming from. Regular owlbears (not the miniboss greater enraged) were level 14 magic beasts as I recall, with elephant caliber strength. Compare that to the level 5, 19 STR normal pathfinder owlbears. That kind of inflation makes a large amount of spells which would otherwise work useless, not to mention combat maneuvers. For those of us with no interest in min/maxing it would’ve been nice to have a core stats setting so we could enjoy using all those class abilities and spells they implemented.

But a kobold is a kobold? It is until you get official variants: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-2/kobold-rogue-2/

As humanoids such creatures are fully sanctioned in taking class levels.

[dulany67]

Not cheating.

In TT, tension is provided by the possibility of death. In order to provide some challenge while avoiding ending campaigns before they can get started, enemies must be carefully balanced.

In a video game, you simply reload. Tension must be created by providing challenge on each encounter- or in the case of RTwP, most encounters. Also, PC gamers are not automatically TT gamers. Game developers are smart to remember that. A video game is not a casual evening around the table.

Complaining about changes to the enemies is just complaining about difficulty without acknowledging that you're not very good at the game. It's the same old thing where gamers take having to lower difficulty as a personal attack rather than adjusting their SP game to an enjoyable level for themselves. Devs should just change the names of difficulty settings to remove the implied criticism that sensitive gamers see in everything to something like TT/Baseline/Modified- but I guess it would still be an issue.

[Devoras]

Publicado originalmente por dulany67:

Not cheating.

In TT, tension is provided by the possibility of death. In order to provide some challenge while avoiding ending campaigns before they can get started, enemies must be carefully balanced.

In a video game, you simply reload. Tension must be created by providing challenge on each encounter- or in the case of RTwP, most encounters. Also, PC gamers are not automatically TT gamers. Game developers are smart to remember that. A video game is not a casual evening around the table.

Complaining about changes to the enemies is just complaining about difficulty without acknowledging that you're not very good at the game. It's the same old thing where gamers take having to lower difficulty as a personal attack rather than adjusting their SP game to an enjoyable level for themselves. Devs should just change the names of difficulty settings to remove the implied criticism that sensitive gamers see in everything to something like TT/Baseline/Modified- but I guess it would still be an issue.

For my part, I just want the normal difficulty level to be baseline enemies with normal stats that make sense. I don't want a lower difficulty, like say so I can fight a beholder with a level 1 party. But I don't want an inflated difficulty where a single average goblin is able to take out a level 5 party.

[McBeardly]

Publicado originalmente por jaden_frost:

Yes, it is still cheating. This should never have been added and wasn't in 3.5.

A kobald is a kobald. Agian like i said above some people just dont get it.

By your logic, i should indeed be able to start with god stats. Fine i want 50's in all my stats. Can i? No? Then the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheating.

What are you talking about? It was 100% in 3.5 and was constantly used in official adventure paths. Just for an obvious example in Heart of Nightfang Spire there is a gargoyle with nearly double normal hit dice. Kobolds in pre-made stuff nearly always had class levels for any special ones. Here are nearly identical rules in the 3.5 SRD which were included in the 3.5 DMG. This even came up in AD&D whenever discussing humanoid monsters it would note when to give them abilities from PC classes. I'm sorry you just haven't actually read the books, but this has been a core part of D&D since it was first made.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm

[dulany67]

Publicado originalmente por Devoras:

For my part, I just want the normal difficulty level to be baseline enemies with normal stats that make sense. I don't want a lower difficulty, like say so I can fight a beholder with a level 1 party. But I don't want an inflated difficulty where a single average goblin is able to take out a level 5 party.

Why? What does it matter? If "Normal" is the mode the devs use for their video game version of pathfinder, and the setting below is what you would consider more accurate, why do you care?

It's SP. No one will ever see your settings. If it's an issue when you interact with other gamers, simply lie.

[Devoras]

Publicado originalmente por dulany67:

Publicado originalmente por Devoras:

For my part, I just want the normal difficulty level to be baseline enemies with normal stats that make sense. I don't want a lower difficulty, like say so I can fight a beholder with a level 1 party. But I don't want an inflated difficulty where a single average goblin is able to take out a level 5 party.

Why? What does it matter? If "Normal" is the mode the devs use for their video game version of pathfinder, and the setting below is what you would consider more accurate, why do you care?

It's SP. No one will ever see your settings. If it's an issue when you interact with other gamers, simply lie.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I don't care what the difficulty level that uses normal stats is called. Changing the difficulty to 'easy' isn't necessarily making an enemy who has overinflated stats go back to having normal stats, instead they likely get penalties to hit, hps, etc.

At this point it doesn't really matter since they've already finished the game

[dulany67]

Publicado originalmente por Devoras:

Publicado originalmente por dulany67:

Why? What does it matter? If "Normal" is the mode the devs use for their video game version of pathfinder, and the setting below is what you would consider more accurate, why do you care?

It's SP. No one will ever see your settings. If it's an issue when you interact with other gamers, simply lie.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I don't care what the difficulty level that uses normal stats is called. Changing the difficulty to 'easy' isn't necessarily making an enemy who has overinflated stats go back to having normal stats, instead they likely get penalties to hit, hps, etc.

At this point it doesn't really matter since they've already finished the game

Did you play P:K, there are many difficulty sliders to customize. Also, WotR has a Core Rules setting available as well.

[Devoras]

Publicado originalmente por dulany67:

Publicado originalmente por Devoras:

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I don't care what the difficulty level that uses normal stats is called. Changing the difficulty to 'easy' isn't necessarily making an enemy who has overinflated stats go back to having normal stats, instead they likely get penalties to hit, hps, etc.

At this point it doesn't really matter since they've already finished the game

Did you play P:K, there are many difficulty sliders to customize. Also, WotR has a Core Rules setting available as well.

Does it have that setting? That was my question and my interest in this thread from the start, but everyone else has at least implied that the game is the same as the first in that regard and it doesn't use standard stats and abilities for monsters

[dulany67]

Publicado originalmente por Devoras:

Publicado originalmente por dulany67:

Did you play P:K, there are many difficulty sliders to customize. Also, WotR has a Core Rules setting available as well.

Does it have that setting? That was my question and my interest in this thread from the start, but everyone else has at least implied that the game is the same as the first in that regard and it doesn't use standard stats and abilities for monsters

Well, the beta is $118, so relatively few have actually been able to explore the Core Rules setting. So I can't attest to accuracy.

[jaden_frost]

Publicado originalmente por Jonwoo89:

Publicado originalmente por jaden_frost:

Yes, it is still cheating. This should never have been added and wasn't in 3.5.

A kobald is a kobald. Agian like i said above some people just dont get it.

By your logic, i should indeed be able to start with god stats. Fine i want 50's in all my stats. Can i? No? Then the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheating.

No, it's not. That's not up to you and this isn't D&D or 3.5 and it's not even table top Pathfinder it's just based off of it so not everything is followed precisely.

Rules are rules and they're followed so by the very definition, it's not cheating. Certain people just don't get that.

By your logic you're cheating because anything you want to say is cheating is cheating even when it makes no logical sense in any way.

Hell, we can keep it in the game terms if you want. 6 characters instead of 4? Cheater! 20+(and even higher for some pregens) point buys? Cheater! Copious amounts of magical items along with some that don't actually exist thrown at you left and right? Cheater! Death's Door instead of dying? Cheater! And there's plenty more.

You want to say it differs from the established lore and continuity you were expecting that's fine but it's a completely different issue.

yes, it is period. it makes me worry for your future, the shocking lack of understanding of basic morals.