How does spellcasting work?

[Grahf]

Anyone bored or excited enough about this game to give a quick breakdown of how spells work?

I keep seeing spell DC, penetration but am unsure how these work exactly. Also it seems that attacking spells and crowd control spells work differently? Appreciate any explanations provided!

[Bubbasan]

Okay, I'll do my best. It is based upon Pathfinder's version of D&D 3.5. I hope this helps.

Spell Level: The relative power/strength of any given spell.

Caster Level: The relative power level of the caster, may automatically augment a spell's damage, range, area of effect, etc depending upon the particular spell.

Casting Time: What type of action it takes to cast. Most take what is called a standard action, which you get 1 of in any particular round.

DC (Difficulty Class, I think): If a spell requires a savings throw (Fortitude, Reflex and Will are the 3 savings throws), then this is the number that the creature affected by the spell must meet or beat in order to have a reduced or cancelled effect.

SR: This is spell resistance. Some creatures have an innate resistance to magic. If a spell is subject to spell resistance (not all are), then the caster must roll to meet or beat that number. Some feats (Spell Penetration) and abilities will allow you to add to that roll.

[Plato]

Best to look up the basic Pathfinder rules about spellcasting. It's a bit too complicated to explain in short.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Bubbasan:

Okay, I'll do my best. It is based upon Pathfinder's version of D&D 3.5. I hope this helps.

Spell Level: The relative power/strength of any given spell.

Caster Level: The relative power level of the caster, may automatically augment a spell's damage, range, area of effect, etc depending upon the particular spell.

Casting Time: What type of action it takes to cast. Most take what is called a standard action, which you get 1 of in any particular round.

DC (Difficulty Class, I think): If a spell requires a savings throw (Fortitude, Reflex and Will are the 3 savings throws), then this is the number that the creature affected by the spell must meet or beat in order to have a reduced or cancelled effect.

SR: This is spell resistance. Some creatures have an innate resistance to magic. If a spell is subject to spell resistance (not all are), then the caster must roll to meet or beat that number. Some feats (Spell Penetration) and abilities will allow you to add to that roll.

This covers a lot of it. Couple additional points.

Some creatures have resistances or immunities that will reduce or negate damage they would take.

A fail against the targets SR is an automatic failure for the spell.

Some spells are "touch" spells which means they target the an enemies' touch AC. Or they are rays that act like normal attacks in terms of hitting enemies.

[Drake]

Also there are 2 type of offencive spells. The attack spells and the others.

Attack spells need you to make an attack roll (just like you would make an attack roll with a weapon), the formula is 1d20 + spell level + the spellcaster ability mod (intelligence for wizards, charisma for sorcerers, wisdom for clerics etc.), and will target the Armor class of the enemy (usually the touch AC if you're using a touch spell, or AC for a ray).
So if you're casting a 2nd level spell and have 20 in int and are a wizard, you roll 1d20 + 7.

For the other spells it's the enemey that needs to beat your DC with a saving throw (1d20 + vill or reflex or fortitude, whatever the spell targets).

The formula for the DC is 10 + spell level + spellcaster ability mod (+ any other bonus that raises DC, like spell focus).

Spell resistance is basically the armor class for spells, when you cast a spell, if the enemy has spell resistance, you need to beat the spell resist for the spell to take effect, even if you hit. the formula for the spell resist check is 1d20 + caster level + spell penetration.
So if you're a 10th level wizard it's 1d20+10 (note that caster level and character level are not the same thing, caster level is for a single type of class, unless a prestige class raises it).
Spell penetration raises the effective caster level, so that you can beat higher spell resists.

So for TLDR, spell level and spellcaster abilities are good for spell attack rolls and beating saving throws while caster level and spell penetration are good for beating spell resistance.

[ArchaicReaper]

Unless this changed in Wrath, it should still follow the basic rules of Kingmaker.

Making a ranged touch attack (Ray), like when casting Scorching Ray or Acid Arrow, is a 1d20 plus Base Attack Bonus (BAB) plus Dexterity Modifier. Wizards and Sorcerers have a 1/2 BAB, so a 4th level Wizard (BAB +2) with 16(+3) Dexterity casting Scorching Ray will be a 1d20+5 targeting Touch AC which ignores the target's armor. If he has Point Blank Shot it's an extra +1 to attack and damage within 30 ft.

A melee touch attack works the same but replace Dexterity with Strength since it's a melee attack still.

Other than that, spellcasters fall into one of two categories, Prepared or Spontaneous. Prepared casters, like Wizards, have to prepare their spells every day. Say you have 2 level 2 spell slots and you want to cast Scorching Ray, so you slot Scorching Ray into one slot and put something else in the second. This means you can cast Scorching Ray once today, and the other spell once, until you rest for 8-9 hours.

Sorcerers are Spontaneous casters who know a smaller amount of spells, but can cast them as they see fit. So say he has 3 level 2 slots, he can decide when he casts to cast Scorching Ray up to 3 times times that day, but then nothing else of that level until he rests.

Lastly there are either Arcane spellcasters or Divine spellcasters. Arcane casters, like Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards, draw magic from study, their mystical blood, or song, to cast spells and are subject to a failure chance when casting in armor. Divine casters, like Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers, draw powers from the Gods or Nature and are not subject to failure chance, but usually have Alignment restrictions.

[Grahf]

Lots of great information thanks all! really helps out.

[kngpigrJ]

Does Touch attacks scale only with Dexterity in the case of the Cruoromancer? A friend of mine was playing some time ago and he told me that he always missed cantrips because of that and I saw that there is a penalty in using a spell while the target is in combat (like, it does not make any sense, should the wizard pick a staff and use it against a fighter instead using it's spells since it misses a lot???). I want to buy the game and play with the Cruoromancer class but I don't really know if it's worth it (I don't have any knowledge about the spell casting in pathfinder rules)

[Snefru]

In regards to resting to recover spell slots. Is that the only way to recover them?

[Indure]

Originally posted by Sparkle:

In regards to resting to recover spell slots. Is that the only way to recover them?

There are rare examples like arcane bond, but most of the time you need to rest to regain spells.

[Adeptus Stark]

Depends on your class. ::badum bum pish::

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by kngpigrJ:

Does Touch attacks scale only with Dexterity in the case of the Cruoromancer? A friend of mine was playing some time ago and he told me that he always missed cantrips because of that and I saw that there is a penalty in using a spell while the target is in combat (like, it does not make any sense, should the wizard pick a staff and use it against a fighter instead using it's spells since it misses a lot???). I want to buy the game and play with the Cruoromancer class but I don't really know if it's worth it (I don't have any knowledge about the spell casting in pathfinder rules)

Common issue, what you want is Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. PBS gives, as mentioned, a +1 to Attack and Damage with all ranged attacks up to 30 ft away, be they Crossbows or spells. PS removes the -4 penalty for shooting at someone engaged in melee, and requires PBS to take. And yes, Dexterity is the stat to determine accuracy of ranged attacks. At low levels Wizards are pretty weak, but they get much more powerful with time.

Take for example, "Magic Missile." At level 1, casting MM will fire 1 missile that deal 1d4+1 damage to a target and does not miss (Note that the spell "Shield" makes you immune to Magic Missile). However every 2 caster levels beyond 1st you get another missile. So at level 5, casting MM will fire 3 missiles that can't miss and deal 1d4+1 each, for a total of 3d4+3 damage to a target, and at level 9 it caps out at 5 missiles for a total of 5d4+5 damage, atll from a first level spell.

That said, the real power for Wizards tends to not be the damage, but the control and support abilities. "Fireball" sounds nice at level 5, dealing 5d6 damage to a wide area, but "Haste" will improve your entire party's ability to fight for an entire rumble, and can tip the scales further than one AoE. The humble "Grease" spell at level 1 can cause enemies to slip and fall Prone for multiple rounds once you get a few levels under your belt, preventing them from making attacks on your party. A really nasty combo with the Cleric a little later is to have the Cleric cast "Delay Poison, Communal" to make your party immune to poison for an hour and then let the Wizard cast "Stinking Cloud" onto a big melee. This will Nauseate your enemies, preventing them from taking actions, and is a poison effect so your party will be unaffected.

A Wizard's might come from his variety of spells and tailoring his loadout for what he expects to face that day. Are you fighting tough but clumsy enemies? "Grease" is the answer. Weak but quick little buggers? "Web" will stop them in their tracks. A whole messy room full of weak fodder you don't want to deal with? "Cloudkill" clears the room and you can call yourself the War Crime Wizard.

[kngpigrJ]

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

Originally posted by kngpigrJ:

Does Touch attacks scale only with Dexterity in the case of the Cruoromancer? A friend of mine was playing some time ago and he told me that he always missed cantrips because of that and I saw that there is a penalty in using a spell while the target is in combat (like, it does not make any sense, should the wizard pick a staff and use it against a fighter instead using it's spells since it misses a lot???). I want to buy the game and play with the Cruoromancer class but I don't really know if it's worth it (I don't have any knowledge about the spell casting in pathfinder rules)

Common issue, what you want is Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. PBS gives, as mentioned, a +1 to Attack and Damage with all ranged attacks up to 30 ft away, be they Crossbows or spells. PS removes the -4 penalty for shooting at someone engaged in melee, and requires PBS to take. And yes, Dexterity is the stat to determine accuracy of ranged attacks. At low levels Wizards are pretty weak, but they get much more powerful with time.

Take for example, "Magic Missile." At level 1, casting MM will fire 1 missile that deal 1d4+1 damage to a target and does not miss (Note that the spell "Shield" makes you immune to Magic Missile). However every 2 caster levels beyond 1st you get another missile. So at level 5, casting MM will fire 3 missiles that can't miss and deal 1d4+1 each, for a total of 3d4+3 damage to a target, and at level 9 it caps out at 5 missiles for a total of 5d4+5 damage, atll from a first level spell.

That said, the real power for Wizards tends to not be the damage, but the control and support abilities. "Fireball" sounds nice at level 5, dealing 5d6 damage to a wide area, but "Haste" will improve your entire party's ability to fight for an entire rumble, and can tip the scales further than one AoE. The humble "Grease" spell at level 1 can cause enemies to slip and fall Prone for multiple rounds once you get a few levels under your belt, preventing them from making attacks on your party. A really nasty combo with the Cleric a little later is to have the Cleric cast "Delay Poison, Communal" to make your party immune to poison for an hour and then let the Wizard cast "Stinking Cloud" onto a big melee. This will Nauseate your enemies, preventing them from taking actions, and is a poison effect so your party will be unaffected.

A Wizard's might come from his variety of spells and tailoring his loadout for what he expects to face that day. Are you fighting tough but clumsy enemies? "Grease" is the answer. Weak but quick little buggers? "Web" will stop them in their tracks. A whole messy room full of weak fodder you don't want to deal with? "Cloudkill" clears the room and you can call yourself the War Crime Wizard.

Thanks for the explanation, how can I get the PBS and PS for my wizard when the game release? Do I need to pick a specific feat ?

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by kngpigrJ:

Thanks for the explanation, how can I get the PBS and PS for my wizard when the game release? Do I need to pick a specific feat ?

Yes, they are both Feats. You should be able to get them both at level 1 as well.

[Drake]

PBS is a lv1 feat, you can pick it at character creation. PS just follows (so if you have 2 feat slots at lv 1, like because you're human, you can pick both).

[kngpigrJ]

Oh thanks guys