Why are there so many classes and sub-classes?

[Katie]

Can anyone explain the design decisions to have so many classes available in the game? Does the overlap between classes make classes feel less unique?

I am not a Pathfinder expert at all, but I'm struggling to understand what is even the point of multiclassing now if so many base classes are simply multiclass variations in of themselves anyway. Does that make sense?

I actually don't even know what the point of "Fighter" even is anymore either. Like, why be a fighter if there's many other Fighter-like classes that do special things and are equally as competent as the existing Fighter class?

It seem very confusing, especially with the multi-class options still being there.

[Divolg]

Variety is the spice of life.
Multiclassing, when you know what you are doing, will almost always provide more benefits than sticking to one class.
And as to your question about Fighter class. Sure, there might be plenty of classes that get some\similar features to it, but there are no classes that get all of them. Someone might wanna have a whole bunch of extra feats, or Fighter's bonuses to saving throws, or armor\weapon training, etc etc etc.

[Indure]

You're correct, a lot of the classes are blends of two other classes. A paladin is just a blend of fighter and cleric. A crusader is just a further blend of paladin and cleric.

That being said, they all have unique features and points of differentiation.

I personally like that you can create hundreds of base builds without even thinking about multiclassing. Although I have no problem with multiclassing, in my opinion it is far to often used for powergaming.

[Snefru]

I like options. I personally don’t multiclass so am glad at what is offered. My only experience with Pathfinder is Kingmaker. I roleplay my characters and don’t worry about metagaming so just grab what matches my mindset and go from there. I can see how people could be overwhelmed with all the choices but I’ll personally take it over other games that are much more limiting. I just don’t stress over points here and levels there and dip into this and that class gets X at this level. It could get maddening if I did that.

[Bishi]

It's only really complicated when you start delving into meta gaming and multi-classing. Which is pretty unnecessary for most of the difficulty options. And some classes even tend to be better played pure like cleric.

As for why some multi-class? It could be for access to something a class doesn't have. Thug and Vivisectionist are very popular dips for sneak attack die. Some will dip for an Animal Companion from something like Inquisitor.

[Drake]

First, if you think that's a lot, pathfinder pnp has pretty much the double of that, maybe more. There are a lot more classes and a lot more archetypes than that. They couldn't do the more complicated ones like summoners.

The point of the options was to discourage multiclassing. If you have enough hybrid classes and archetypes, people wouldn't need to to level dips. It's better for roleplay, because a lv1 vivi/lv1paladin/18 magus is just not so real roleplayable material, since when do you have a single level as a paladin, what did you do with your vows ? What happened to this char that he had training in cutting people alive for science, got paladin vows and then trained in arcane magic and thought it would be good to mix that with combat.
While having a divine slayer instead just makes more sense.

You can see what their vision is if you look at how starfinder does it. There are a lot less classes, but the themes and archetypes (which are class agnostic in SF) are what tell you how mix that up. You can still multiclass but except in some cases, monoclassing with a good theme and archetype (or no archetype at all) is far superior.

[phimseto]

"Hello and welcome to Pathfinder!"

The above should be marked as the answer.

[zero]

why not? more choice is always better, and the archtypes aren't exactly better then default, they're all trade-offs of one another, it adds a lot to the replayability of a game to give the players more choice.

its one of the biggest shortcomings of 5e to no surprise: enjoy your 12 base classes

[Fistimus Maximus]

More choice is always better, allows you to make unique builds and create the toon you want. cant believe someone would complain about more choices.

[PerfectLife]

There's really only four classes.

Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric/Druid (these are basically the same mechanically)

Every other class in Pathfinder is some hybrid recombination of these four classes usually with some unique mechanic to justify being a full class.

[Katie]

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

More choice is always better

No, it's not "always" better.

https://www.playerresearch.com/learn/spoiled-for-choice-the-psychology-of-choice-overload-in-games-and-how-to-avoid-it/

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SitaVriend/20170818/303852/Can_your_game_have_too_many_choices.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

https://www.google.com/search?q=too+much+choice+in+games+can+be+bad

Glad you're not designing video games.

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

cant believe someone would complain about more choices.

Who is complaining? What a dishonest assessment.

[zero]

Originally posted by Katie:

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

More choice is always better

No, it's not "always" better.

https://www.playerresearch.com/learn/spoiled-for-choice-the-psychology-of-choice-overload-in-games-and-how-to-avoid-it/

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SitaVriend/20170818/303852/Can_your_game_have_too_many_choices.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

https://www.google.com/search?q=too+much+choice+in+games+can+be+bad

Glad you're not designing video games.

Originally posted by Fistimus Maximus:

cant believe someone would complain about more choices.

Who is complaining? What a dishonest assessment.

rip to you but im not burdered with choice, more is always better for me.

you can ignore extra, but you cannot nessiarily create more, especially for D&D.

i cant play an oracle in 5e, or a witch, or a shaman, or any of their 30 variants, without having to work with at the very least the dm for a long period of time.

but i can just pick it here.

[Katie]

Originally posted by zero:

rip to you but im not burdered with choice, more is always better for me.

Good for you. The articles I post don't contradict that. The first link actually said experts prefer more choice, but that does mean it's "always" better as an absolute. Inexperienced/new players are very likely to disagree with you, as demonstrated by psychologists/experiments. And not just in video games, but in all situations of life. Sorry, I'm siding with the science rather than your opinion.

[zero]

Originally posted by Katie:

Originally posted by zero:

rip to you but im not burdered with choice, more is always better for me.

Good for you. The articles I post don't contradict that. The first link actually said experts prefer more choice, but that does mean it's "always" better as an absolute. Inexperienced/new players are very likely to disagree with you, as demonstrated by psychologists/experiments. And not just in video games, but in all situations of life. Sorry, I'm siding with the science rather than your opinion.

trying to argue absoluteism about peoples opinions its ultimately pointless so do not know why you'd even bother to bring it up unless you were trying to troll.

if i say "oranges are the best" you don't need to be contrarian and state that its just an opinion, thats redundant, of course it is.

people play pathfinder BECAUSE they like the crunch, the large amount of choice, because more choice is always better.

[Katie]

Originally posted by zero:

trying to argue absoluteism about peoples opinions its ultimately pointless so do not know why you'd even bother to bring it up unless you were trying to troll.

if i say "oranges are the best" you don't need to be contrarian and state that its just an opinion, thats redundant, of course it is.

people play pathfinder BECAUSE they like the crunch, the large amount of choice, because more choice is always better.

So words don't matter then even though that's all anyone has to go on. I'm not a troll for taking people at their word. Bye!! Waste of time.

[zero]

Originally posted by Katie:

Originally posted by zero:

trying to argue absoluteism about peoples opinions its ultimately pointless so do not know why you'd even bother to bring it up unless you were trying to troll.

if i say "oranges are the best" you don't need to be contrarian and state that its just an opinion, thats redundant, of course it is.

people play pathfinder BECAUSE they like the crunch, the large amount of choice, because more choice is always better.

So words don't matter then even though that's all anyone has to go on. Okay. Bye!!

yes yes i am a computer and as such i cannot use my computer mind to understand that peoples opinions cannot be objective truth.

peace my dude.

oh sorry i meant peace not as in "non violent" but in the informal way in which it is used incorrectly to signify a good bye, i felt the need to clarify because you also didn't understand the informal way people were stating absolutes in their opinions which shows a strong preference and not an actual absolute.