Was disappointed with Kingmaker - how's this game looking up?

[Slayer Seraph]

Also is there any way to play a Demo for this?

[Drake]

Depends on what disappointed you in the first game.

[Lane]

It looks like to be another masterpiece, just like Kingmaker. If you did not like Kingmaker tho, I highly doubt you will like this one either. The core of the game is pretty much the same.

[Slayer Seraph]

Escrito originalmente por Drake:

Depends on what disappointed you in the first game.

I dunno. It didn't do it for me... Nothing kept me interested or invested/ I found it very boring and dull.
Mostly: The story, the pacing, the companions and writing felt very lacking to downright bad... I dropped the game where you meet a Dryad in a forest, I found it very stale... and non compelling.
The companion felt like generic, stereotypical cut outs and annoying.
I didn't like how they announce themselves as the BIG DUMB FEMALE BARBARIAN, or the Arrogant Ex Paladin etc.
Also the writing was off: your companions, if talked to enough, were praising you as the new future ruler and immediately at awe with you and admired you - despite being barely level 2 starting adventurer, barely able to survive through the day's travel. It's like they already know the full script and that you are destined to become a king...

didn't feel like continuing dragging along the map and getting to the stag lord. Also I didn't enjoy the dungeon crawling combat. It felt very grindy, slow and unbalanced. Not challenging in a fair way nor fun or engaging...

I was also disappointed with PoE1 companions, writing and story. But I did finish that game completely.

I'm coming from the original Baldur's Gate series, and more recently DoS2 Original Sin for background.

Games like these attract me due to the writing and the character driven story first and foremost. The companion focused narrative, party focused gameplay and the sense of adventure and discovery they bring. Then for the tactical and interesting combat, exploration, mystery, level and world design, art style, music - and so on.

[Slayer Seraph]

That said, I'm totally ready to come with a clean slate perspective for this one.
So please tell me what you think about the game from the start:

How's the writing? And the story and premise?
How are the companions this time around? I hope they are more compelling and interesting this time around.
What about NPCs and other main characters?
Level and quest design?
Encounters and combat?
Is it going to be full voiced btw?
Will it be less Alignment focused this time around?
Have they made any advancements and improved the Pacing, narrative and flow?

Any feedback and thoughts about the game will be appreciated.
Once again I'm drawn to these games as someone who grew up playing Baldur's Gate 1-2 way back.

[Bubbasan]

So I'm going to start out by saying that I'm biased. Loved Kingmaker and I played Wrath with my kids when it came out in PnP and had a blast, so I'll stay away from writing and plot opinions because all the stuff I've seen so far is tinged with rose colored nostalgia.

Full voice acting: No, from what's been said officially and other places, about as much voice acting as KIngmaker.

Alignment: Yes, less focused on alignment but there still will be alignment choices that will have consequences. Focus is more on mythic path decisions, but alignment will be a factor.

On a side note, I loved the mythic rules in PnP but the math got crazy in the late game so I'm glad I'll have a computer handling that for me this time.

[Slayer Seraph]

Escrito originalmente por Bubbasan:

So I'm going to start out by saying that I'm biased. Loved Kingmaker and I played Wrath with my kids when it came out in PnP and had a blast, so I'll stay away from writing and plot opinions because all the stuff I've seen so far is tinged with rose colored nostalgia.

Full voice acting: No, from what's been said officially and other places, about as much voice acting as KIngmaker.

Alignment: Yes, less focused on alignment but there still will be alignment choices that will have consequences. Focus is more on mythic path decisions, but alignment will be a factor.

On a side note, I loved the mythic rules in PnP but the math got crazy in the late game so I'm glad I'll have a computer handling that for me this time.

Hey. Thanks for the reply. What are the Mythic Paths ?

Sad to hear about lack of Voice Acting. The narration and writing was very heavy handed in Kingmaker and games like POE - too verbose and exposition heavy, with excessive overblown descriptions to non-important characters. And the dialogue ... quite weak.

Also Voice Acting really helps fleshing out the story and characters, immersion and world and bring it to life. Especially in 2021 when it's a standard.

DoS2 had a HUGE amount of written text, narration and dialogue, that's very flexible, adaptive and changing - depending on the many optional dialogue choices, including secret choices (per Origin, background, race or Quest dependent etc). They are all fully voice, and the VA job is quite well made.
Which is VERY impressive, considering how they Voice Acted all the many responses every NPC has, even animals! They also seem to be aware of stuff that happened in the story and change accordingly.

I heard POE2 also have more or full Voice Acting - so I'm surprised Pathfinder won't have it...

Also, are the characters this time at least more interesting, appealing, compelling and likable?
I couldn't stand, like or care about a single character in the previous game.
One is a woman saying she is a BARBARIAN and how she is X100 better than all males. No person in history described himself as "Barbarian" and neither would characters in DND, it feels childish and amateurish, very gamey. And her excessive anti-male agenda was obnoxious.
Same with that former "I was too hot to handle" ex paladin that pride herself of ditching the paladin code because she was too attractive to be harassed all the time. That's the most dumb origin story I've ever heard, it's cringe worthy...

Or the bard that somehow foresee you being a king when you are barely a level 1 adventurer barely able to kill a group of rats without TPK...

Also I felt like the pacing and premise wasn't talking to me or pulling me back into the game, nor keeping me on the edge of my sit and wanting to see happens next...

I am sorry for being a bit negative, but coming from fascinating, thrilling and mysterious worlds and characters of Baldur's Gate and even Divinity Original Sin 2 - the characters felt unrealistic, paper thin, and not compelling at all.
I should note that side from Eder and Aloth and partially Kana I didn't enjoy any characters in PoE1 as well, sadly. I really wanted to like that game, but the overall plot and pacing was very bad, and the ending extremely underwhelming, with all the writer Anti-Religion Agenda screaming out...


I am still eager for Baldur's Gate-ish like cRPGs (I'm really enjoying DoS2 although it's far from perfect and not even close in terms of tone, world building and design) - so I'm willing to give this game a chance if they improved said elements. Especially Story, writing, characters and world building, I guess.

P.S I should note I have no experience with Pathfinder system PNP, I am coming from DND 3e and 3.5 Edition (and some 5e) background for PNP Role Playing Games.

[Mr Jt (Gog is king)]

Escrito originalmente por Ransom Seraph:

Also is there any way to play a Demo for this?

If you mean the timed quest mechanics they are still here but they aren’t as extrem like in kingmaker according to some beta players

[Marcos_DS]

Escrito originalmente por Ransom Seraph:

Also is there any way to play a Demo for this?

No, but you can watch twitch-streams or youtube videos. Doubt you'll like it if you didn't like Kingmaker tho

[jlawleraz]

I agree with Lane. With the sheer amount of things you didn't like in Kingmaker, I don't think this will be the game for you. It will have a lot of broad similarities. People like different games and different things about the same game. Some of the things you list as weaknesses for Kingmaker turned out to be strengths for me. I didn't think much of some of the characters at first, but I grew to like them all a lot more as the game went along. Most of them had interesting arcs or grew a lot. I thought the world building also grew to be excellent - starting with the "dryad" in the forest.

By comparison, I also really enjoyed Divinity Original Sin 2, but Kingmaker edged it out in the end. I liked the structure of Baldur's Gate because the outdoor exploration felt like a tabletop game. And I liked Baldur's Gate 2. But I thought the characters in Baldur's Gate were pretty shallow and I thought the characters in Baldur's Gate 2 were generally unlikable by the end. So for me, Kingmaker was a much better experience than those two games.

I am a huge voice acting fan as well and I would like more studios to have enough money and time to fully voice everything. But even though Kingmaker had a much lower percentage of voice acting than Pillars of Eternity 2, Kingmaker is a much longer game. Kingmaker felt like it had more impactful voice acting.

[Drake]

To each his own. I actually didn't like the DOS2 story and pacing at all. I didn't even really read nor listen most of the dialogs because it didn't interest me one bit (which is rare), and with that I didn't even finish it, don't have any interest coming back.
Whereas I did 3 runs on kingmaker, and I only stopped playing because of WotR.

[Irx]

Escrito originalmente por Ransom Seraph:

I'm coming from the original Baldur's Gate series, and more recently DoS2 Original Sin for background.

LMAO are you non-sarcastically suggesting that the writing in DOS is good and even comparable to BG?

[Divolg]

It should be a crime to put D:OS2 and "good writing" in the same sentense.

[Titan]

Will wait and see before i buy this one.
Kingmaker was fine if it wasn't for all the errors, mistakes and unwritten stuff.
If *I can't go with what i see is what i Get I'm not getting this one till it's on a high dicount at best.
I mean some of the misleading information could be handled by a simple copy paste, but they didn't do that in 2 years even after several posts about the issue, so alas will wait and see.

I do expect to see less problems this time around after all they didn't have to start all over for this one.

[kosten07]

Story, replay ability - Planescape: Torment had them all beat hands down, though Baldur's Gate was by no means bad.
The gameplay in DOS2 was really fun especially with the diversity of builds.

[Slayer Seraph]

There's a lot people didn't like or enjoy about Kingmaker pacing, writing, characters gameplay and level/challenge design, kingdom and map management and so on:
Therefore I mainly want to know if they bothered to fix, improve upon and address those issues.
If they just copy-pasted the same formula - without change, improving, adapting, removing issues or weak points and enriching it - then it's not a good way to approach a sequel and frankly feels rushed..

That goes for writing, designing, combat/gameplay, flow and pacing, RPG elements and so on...